And That's Why We Drink - E380 The Spookeasy and the Crime Travelers, Partners in Time Transcript and Discussion (2024)

Comedy

Starting point is 00:00:00 The lag is gone. Is it? I hope so. I'm delighted. I've never seen you- heard you talk this promptly before. Oh, thank you. Well, I hope you're right because right now it says uploading- Is this for use on purpose? No, are you kidding me?

Starting point is 00:00:27 No, dude, I thought you were I thought you were pranking me no Okay, you're fine. Now. Just okay. I'm just gonna stop talking about it. I'm clearly jinxing it It says uploading 82% Yeah, that might be an internet thing then but congratulations on your new computer That may or may not be any more useful. Okay Yeah, that might be an internet thing then, but congratulations on your new computer. That may or may not be any more useful. Okay, maybe we have to get that recording studio faster than I thought. Yeah, do you love her, the new laptop? This is my first time using her. So currently she's giving a bad reputation to herself. No, she's odd to me. It sounds better than ever. Well, thank you odd to me. It sounds better than ever

Starting point is 00:01:11 Well, thank you. The the audio is exactly the same because I haven't touched my my roadcaster and But the camera is nicer. I was gonna say you look very clear in your camera now Interesting. I so much for that Really expensive webcam I bought but okay great. I'm glad that this works better You know, she's just surpassing expectations that we didn't have, and she's barely meeting the expectations we did have. Yeah, it's, oops, awkward matchup. Maybe not soulmate level, but it's okay.

Starting point is 00:01:36 It's okay, she's doing good for... Yours just got up to 99% uploaded, so I'm pretty excited. Let's hope it stays there, cause I'm nervous. Why do I keep talking about it? Because we're both, we have, I think, a little trauma from this. I'm so sweaty. What people don't know is that for months we have been constantly keeping an eye on my upload levels on my laptop, and it's never been good, which is what forced me to get

Starting point is 00:02:02 a laptop last time, but now I think we're both just primed to have to stare at it out of fear. Yeah. I feel like this constant, like, uh, uh, anytime something's even a little bit off, so I'm going to, I'm going to get over it. Um, but in the meantime, I will just try to ignore it. Um, but you know what we're supposed to talk about this week. I don't remember. It's okay because it's been- Your new house?

Starting point is 00:02:26 Yeah. OK, great. Well, so can I say one thing beforehand, which I just want to say, because it's not a big thing. I just want to say it before I forget. And I know I'll get wrapped up in your new house. Happy Mother's Day to everybody who is a mother, identifies as a mother, doesn't have any mother figures.

Starting point is 00:02:42 And it's like, anybody out there, Happy Mother's Day and whatever that means to you. And also, Blaze and Leona surprised me with a trip to the Appalachian Festival over here in Cincinnati. So it was the best day ever and highly recommend if you're in the area and you need something to do next Mother's Day.

Starting point is 00:03:00 It's a great place. I bought a broom and I bought- Sounds like a mother. Well, it was like one of those handmade brooms from people who, because they have a lot of like living history displays and like turning butter and sh*t, you know? And so there's the guy who's a broom maker and it's like generations of broom makers. It's this gorgeous thing. I'm going to like hang it up here, I think.

Starting point is 00:03:22 And the teenager who sold it to me was like, Oh, I don't know how much he charges for this grandfather. And I was like, Oh my God, oh my God. Living history indeed. Wow. Wow. And that was like not any sort of character. Like that's I would not be able to control my face if someone called their grandpa grandfather. Well I thankfully was staring at some brooms and was making other like, I just pretended I was just enamored by the brooms, which I also was.

Starting point is 00:03:47 And I bought a little house that is made of like, found wood scraps and there's a little light in it and it plugs in so that it's like a cabin with like logs. It's so cute. Anyway, so it was a great time. We ate. What do you, was it just like a living history festival or was there like?

Starting point is 00:04:04 No, it's just there's music. They had Native American dancing. They had a Navajo flute player and I got so enraptured by that that now when I go to sleep, I just listen to Navajo flute music. It was so cool and they had all different kind of aspects of Appalachian history. They had trinkets you can buy. They had different foods that, wooly wooly beans, I don't know, lots of stuff that is very Appalachian,

Starting point is 00:04:29 and then they sold crafts, they had like, the living history kind of immersive part, they had lots of live music, dancing, like a lot of, what do you call it? Oh my gosh, ta, oh no, clogging, clogging, I think. Sure. Just a lot of, it was just very cool. There's a lot going on, a lot of live music.

Starting point is 00:04:50 There was live storytelling with these two older men who bring their little storytelling truck around and then they do storytelling sessions with an audience. Anyway, so it was very cool. And I just wanna wish everyone a happy Mother's Day. So now let's talk about the more important thing, Em. Oh, well, I don't know about that. I just want, I only said it because I knew I would forget

Starting point is 00:05:12 if I didn't say something. But yeah, we haven't, we have had a lot of things go on in our lives since we recorded that. And that includes you seeing the house, which I think we said the second half of this would be us, you giving a full review, a beach to sand, a Yelp review, if you will, on the house. Five stars, would give it six if I could. I can't wait for the updates that you've already planned out, but I think it's beautiful.

Starting point is 00:05:38 You are not kidding. It is turnkey. You walk in, it's gorgeous. The woman who lived there before did a beautiful job renovating it, even has like very millennial coated like floral wallpaper accents. Like it's just beautiful. And I was just very impressed

Starting point is 00:05:54 and I think it's gonna be a very happy home. It has a gorgeous little yard with a garage. I mean, it's just really beautiful. I'm just so happy for you. And the garage will one day be the studio or some element of it will be. So they're renovating that whole space, which is going to add a ton of square footage. Yeah, it's going to like, I think the goal is to like triple our square footage. At least like a wild thought, but it's L.A. folks remember that.

Starting point is 00:06:21 We got to build on top of it instead of out. You got to build up. Got to build up. Gotta build up. Build up, not out. Yeah, it'll take a while. Last time you asked if I was happy and the answer was I will be and that's still the answer. And then afterward I was like,

Starting point is 00:06:36 I hate when people ask me that and I was like, oops. Well, only because I feel bad. I'm like, I'm gonna bum you out with my awkward answer of no. But I, when I have a, I think it's also like, I don't, I can't see it yet in my head. So like, when I see it, I'll be excited, but we haven't even figured out plans or anything. Alison's dad is coming at the end of the month. He's an architect. He's going to help us. So this is the fun part. This is the Pinterest stage. I know, but I- Come on, lean into it.

Starting point is 00:07:05 I mean, I'm going to when he gets here, but he's not here yet. So currently I'm still, like technically if I wanted to, I have the keys and everything. I could just go over there and sit on the floor if I'd like. But I- Oh, that's what I would do. I used to do that all the time.

Starting point is 00:07:18 I would like when I, we got the keys to our new place in LA and I would just go sit there. Cause why not? I live here now well That's true. But also there's no furniture or any comforts over there. So I would others a TV She left us TVs, which is nice. So that's nice. That is nice. Yeah, Allison is more excited, but I think it's because she I'm I'm just overwhelmed at like all the little steps and Allison as a task person,

Starting point is 00:07:47 so it's easier for her to get over it. So I'm hoping to- Yeah, she's like, I'm calling the gardeners. I've already called, I've gotten two quotes on this and I was like, girl, what? Okay, here's an example. And everyone, you can laugh at me, I don't care. But I'm in my 30s.

Starting point is 00:08:02 I never knew what it meant, because I never had to. But when people are like like, oh just call the city. I'm like, what the f*ck does that mean? Well, what does that mean? I don't know like things like that. Like I can't even ever heard of such a thing Oh, I've been told that about 50,000 times in the last month I'm like, oh you just need to call the city and I'm like, how does everyone know the number to the city? What makes me mad? I feel like someone's holding out on me. It feels so gatekeeping but then also I'm like maybe I'm supposed to know this and nobody's told me. Well if it's any consolation I have no idea what the f*ck that means. Well since we're trying to get permits and you know figure out if we're able to do things we

Starting point is 00:08:38 have to keep calling the city. We have a historic district thing and the quote unquote city laws and we were redoing a whole building and like changing the whole thing. So I know there were many calls made to probably the city, but I was like, that's not on me. Sorry. Either Blaze or- Blaze probably has the city on speed dial. I think the contractor had to do it actually. Like I don't think that was on us.

Starting point is 00:09:01 Like I think the contractor dealt with that. I think it can be on the contractor, but I think they, we were being told if you want to figure it. Alison's very excited. But Blaze and I are not phone people. She doesn't mind being on the phone. I, Blaze and I both don't. She obviously knew how to call the city. She had no problem with that.

Starting point is 00:09:16 I said, apparently we have to call the city. And she went, okay. And I'm like, do you just have their f*cking number? Like, do you get me Burbank? I wonder if it's like a certain department. She's explained it to me and I still don't totally understand is that a thing yeah you call the city for zoning I called okay I typed in city of Burbank zoning and there's a phone number so I guess

Starting point is 00:09:35 you just call what you google it it it's I'm sure it's that simple and yet I still it's one of those things that immediately um because it's one of those things that immediately, because it's something that seems so simple to everybody else. And yet I had to like do the extra step of figuring it out. It's already like discouraging of like, if I can't even f*cking, if I don't know who to call, then how do I get anything done? So I'm sure it's fine, but it's the it's all the tiny little steps that add up that I just get stressed out. And I'm like, I can't even make the,

Starting point is 00:10:05 I don't even know how to make the phone call but alone from the house. Well, see, that's why you don't do that. You have a partner who is ready and willing and wants to do that. You're lucky. Blaise and I were like, you call, no, you call, no, you call.

Starting point is 00:10:15 Like, at least you have a partner who wants to. Blaise and I were just like, no, I just want to think about what color to paint the walls. That's about as far as I got. And it's still exciting to do that. I don't know if she wants to, but she certainly knows that. Oh, she seemed pretty excited. She certainly knows she has to.

Starting point is 00:10:30 She's like, I've got multiple contractors coming. I'm so excited. I'm getting two different, what do you call it, quotes. She's like, I already spoke with the gardener. I've decided which trees I want to put where. I was like, girl, get it. I wish you could come to my house and help me because I need help.

Starting point is 00:10:46 No, she does seem on top of that. I know part of it is a slight guilt because fun fact for everybody, the entire time that we were getting this house is when she was off the grid in the Amazon. So she did not really, with love, Allison, sorry, but she did not really participate at all because she just couldn't.

Starting point is 00:11:04 She wasn't in the country or with internet access or in the real world in civilization. Yeah. So I think this is her paying me back of like, I did everything and now she's like, well, she's always seemed to me like a very get it done kind of gal. I mean, anytime we had an issue at our dorm room or our apartment, Allison was like in the leasing office, like laying down the law and I was just hiding in the corner. So I feel like she's definitely suited for this kind of activity, which I'm so happy for both of you that you have that.

Starting point is 00:11:36 Because you're my strong suit. I'll be really useful when it comes to... I'm scared to hire from Thumbtack because I'm like, I don't want to talk to a stranger ever, even if it's through an app and they come to my house. I'm just such a chicken sh*t. Trust me, I get it. What I'm saying is I get it. I get it. But there's fun stuff to do besides that, just like Pinterest. I'll be really useful when it gets to organizing and once everything's in the house, I'll be really useful when it gets to like organizing and like once everything's in the

Starting point is 00:12:06 house I'll be really good. I always thought like after playing so much Sims I thought like I am prepared for this. I think maybe. Go figure Sims is not real life. What? Yeah I was like I got I there's it's I'm not as prepared as I thought I was. Who locked me in the room full of toilets? I think you did that to yourself.

Starting point is 00:12:30 Oh, that was me. You're right. My bad. Anyway, no, I'm I'm glad that um, you know, Can somebody tell me how to find a handy person? Sorry, as I'm asking somebody on listeners helped me find a therapist. So now I'm just thinking, can somebody help me figure out how to find a handy person? A handyman is the generic term.

Starting point is 00:12:49 That's fine. I don't know what's appropriate, but like a handyman. I would just like somebody that I can text and be like, hey, the baby gate on top of the stairs broke. Could you come fix it? We don't have time. Does somebody know how to do that? Is that just on thumbtack? If you live in Kentucky, I feel like there's a lot of dads out there who just know how to do all that.

Starting point is 00:13:09 I know, but how do I find that? Like, how do I, like, I know they're around, but like, how do I link up with them? A poster on a telephone pole? I don't know. Oh, I don't know about that. Just go, help me. I need help. I've done that. It It doesn't it doesn't work. I've tried that over and over again. Oh hmm. I don't know. Okay well if somebody has a recommendation like thumbtack or like task rabbit or whatever just let me know how this works. Yeah same here same here. I just come for life advice. I mean I'm currently our our handyman right now his name is Jonathan and he's not very good at his job, but he does better than what Allison and I

Starting point is 00:13:49 could have pulled off. That's kind of what I want. Just somebody who can pop in and out. And like, I just, it's, it's just like understood. Like when you have a minute, can you come over and like fix this curtain rod? You know? Yeah. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:13:59 I will miss that about apartment life. Just things getting addressed quickly, but. Yeah. That's why I'm like, maybe I need a handyman. Anyway, you let me know, because I also need a handyman. I'm assuming it's just on like some tag question mark. I don't know. Now I'm stressed out.

Starting point is 00:14:17 I've lived here for four years. I'm like already stressed out. Okay, just leave it to Em to make everybody stressed out about something that we were all excited about five minutes ago. You know, we can all slowly build to excitement together because once I at least have a floor plan, I'll get excited, but we don't even have that yet.

Starting point is 00:14:36 So it's just like, it's all just a blob of mystery. And you know now, they have a lot of fun fact, they have apps and stuff. I was gonna say CD-ROMs. Oh my God, okay. Yuck. Yuck, they have apps and software where you can, I'm sure they have CD-ROMs,

Starting point is 00:14:54 where you can take a picture. They have a Rosetta Stone. Yeah. You have to take the CD-ROM to your local library and they're gonna look at you like, what the f*ck is that? Where you can take a picture of your room and then it'll you can like change the walls and change the paint color it's really fun and like add furniture from different

Starting point is 00:15:12 stores I've heard of those I'm excited when I again when I have walls I will be very excited about that but um okay it'll just not not not the part we're building that's not part we're building. Oh, I know. I just mean the inside of the house, like the current house. Oh, yeah, we're not really doing anything to change anything in there. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. It's just the garage that we're turning into a whole two-story building. That's gonna be a rough one.

Starting point is 00:15:39 Well, that's gonna take some work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I'm glad you got to see it because it was... We were keeping it a secret for quite some more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I'm glad you got to see it because it was, we were keeping it a secret for quite some time. It's beautiful, and I'm so proud of you. And and as as time goes on, I will become more and more excited. So I hope so. Stand by. It's fun. I just I just I like to control things and I currently feel out of control. So all right.

Starting point is 00:16:07 Why do you drink other than having a great Mother's Day? Do you got anything going on? I have a weird rash. Does that count? Where? It matters where. Oh, your arm. Yeah, that's, I wanted it to be somewhere a little juicier.

Starting point is 00:16:22 But it's my inner elbow and it's my left inner elbow I've this is always where I get rashes when I'm allergic to something like red food coloring or if I eat too much citrus So you don't know that checked out though. That's been around for like a week and a half now Oh, it's been around for like two months girl doctor I know one number and it's 9-1-1. Help me. I don't understand like I think my I know one number and it's 911. Help me, I don't understand. Like, I don't know. That's rough. Thumbtack? I think my, like the dad across the street in Kentucky.

Starting point is 00:16:51 Candyman? I would type in allergist or something. That's what Blaze said too, but like, I think it's like a, I think it's just dermatitis. Like I think, cause I have it, I don't know. It happens every now and then. So I'm like, I think it's just, I get these. Yeah, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:17:11 It doesn't matter. That's why I drink, I guess. Why do you drink? I drink because we've done a lot recently behind closed doors. Yes, you and I, meaning, right? Yes, yes. And... What?

Starting point is 00:17:31 No, I'm just, I'm looking around at my room. I feel like the task list just goes on and on and on, and I can barely do one task. I can't even call the city. So, I feel like this- Okay, well, again, that feels like a big daunting thing that most of us probably can't do, so don't worry. Which, like, this brings me back to, well, again, that feels like a big daunting thing that most of us probably can't do, so don't worry.

Starting point is 00:17:46 Which, like, this brings me back to, like, why don't we have, like, classes in school that actually teach you how to do things like that? Because I feel like such a dummy, and, like, I'm living an experience that is very common, but, like, I still feel like a dummy. I think we're all doing that. Like, we're all winging it. Like, nobody really knows. Everyone just thinks everyone else knows.

Starting point is 00:18:04 Yeah, although Allison really made it seem like she knew. So, it really hurt my feelings. Well, it's Allison. That's different. She just went to the Amazon by herself for two weeks. That's not the average person, Em. I don't know how it ended up with someone so capable, but... Because she's capable, and it's like, oh, what a good match. So, she can do that weird hard red tape stuff

Starting point is 00:18:22 that we don't know how to do. Well, so anyway, we're going through, you and me, we've been doing a lot behind closed doors. And now I feel like now that I'm back, I was like, oh, I can take a little rest, but no, no, no. It's only just begun. So I'm just, I think I'm gonna get myself a fun little treat later,

Starting point is 00:18:38 and then I'm going to crack into it. But the reason I drink in a good way is that later I will have a fun little treat. I'm so proud of you. But later, after that, I will have to work all night. But that's okay, because I'll have my FLT. Honestly, that's the way it works. I'm proud of you. And speaking of Mother's Day's update on Lil Leona, what's she up to these days?

Starting point is 00:19:01 What's her favorite color? What's her favorite snack? Yellow and Sesame Street cereal bars. Great. And what's your favorite color these days according to her? According to her, it's red and I don't think I've, I've kind of had to, I've kind of had to just acknowledge and accept the fact that I won't ever be able to change my own favorite color

Starting point is 00:19:23 because it's just been so ingrained. It's almost like I've been brainwashed into thinking it's my favorite color. So it's like she's creating my reality now. So whatever. Does she have a favorite prank these days, a favorite gag? Like she was all about what Slippery Mountain or whatever it was called? Wobbly Mountain.

Starting point is 00:19:40 Wobbly Mountain. Oh, I posted a cute picture of Leona and me all dressed up and somebody said, the queen and princess of Wobbly Mountain. Oh, I posted a cute picture of Leona and me all dressed up and somebody said, the queen and princess of Wobbly Mountain. Precious. I think I'm the princess because Leona is the queen of... Of course. Of course.

Starting point is 00:19:54 She loves to try to run away toward a dangerous thing. So do you. She thinks it's very funny. Mommy daughter date. I know, right? I'm like, wow, this is very familiar. When I was little, I used to play that fun game with my parents. Give her a fake social security card and just see what happens.

Starting point is 00:20:13 See what happens, yeah. Yesterday, I gave her a piece of bread with butter and jam on it or something. And I was like, oh, do you want to dance with me? And she was eating it. She's like, sure. And she just literally, it was unbelievable unbelievable, like slow motion just chucked it and it like flew through the air, landed face down. She didn't even like look.

Starting point is 00:20:30 And I was like, Leona, you just like chucked that onto the floor. And I look over and she's like shaking her butt. And I'm like, well, okay, this is my life. Why am I even fighting it? Yeah. Well, okay, great. Sounds like she's doing good. Yeah, she's having, I mean, she's having fun. Well, okay, great. Sounds like she's doing good.

Starting point is 00:20:45 Yeah, she's having, I mean, she's having fun. Well, happy Mother's Day. And I'm glad you had fun. I also had fun. I didn't have to do anything, but Allison hung out with my mom. So again. Oh, how did that happen? She's in DC right now.

Starting point is 00:21:02 Oh. Allison is. I didn't know. Okay, great. She's gone for another two weeks. See, is. I didn't know. Okay, great. She's gone for another two weeks. See, she's taking all the hard work off your hands. I know, she spent Mother's Day with my mom. I just get to max and relax over here. Just veg out, eat a fun little treat.

Starting point is 00:21:15 And I will, actually. And you deserve it. Okay, I'm ready to tell you a story because I'm noticing that we hit our 20 minute mark and I don't want to lose the audience. I love this arbitrary mark that you've created. I push it like five more minutes every year. Oh great. And here's another thing for why I drink is that I don't remember doing these notes because

Starting point is 00:21:43 we were supposed to do this episode a long, long time ago and then I had to get a whole new laptop. So this is out of my memory. I officially don't know what's going on. So we're gonna learn together today. This is so fun. Now this is the story of the, drum roll?

Starting point is 00:22:03 No, okay. Hannah House. Hannah House? What's that? Well, let me tell you, Chris. You can maybe do a drum roll, and then you're like, anyway, here's a thing you've never heard of. I had you drum roll for the mystery because we're gonna dive in together.

Starting point is 00:22:21 So my first note from Past M says, in 1858, this house was built for the Indiana state legislator Alexander Hannah. So that's where we get the name Hannah. Okay. Fun. This is a mansion with 24 rooms, all of which apparently have fireplaces.

Starting point is 00:22:41 That's a lot of chimneys. Or do you think it's all like kind of webbed into one? Yeah, I think they meet in one. That would be hilarious if a house lot of chimneys. Or do you think they just all like kind of web into one? Yeah, I think they meet in one. That would be hilarious if a house had 21 chimneys. Yeah, the fire hazard is insane. I mean, think about the fire hazard of houses back then, where like everyone has to survive off of fireplaces. Like how were people just...

Starting point is 00:23:02 OK, but there's no, nobody's wearing polyester. So that's a plus. In a lot of ways. In a lot of ways. That's the only bonus I have. I don't really know. I don't really know. I'm just surprised at just how this works. I guess people knew how to deal with fire though. Like I think people were like more apt to deal with a fire.

Starting point is 00:23:18 Like nowadays I'd probably be like, I can figure this out and watch a YouTube video and then like blow up my home, you know? I guess that's true. And also like fires back then maybe were even less often than now because now we have electrical fires. Like, maybe- Oh, yes, true.

Starting point is 00:23:33 Yes, true. So maybe there was just, if it's not happening near the chimney, it's not happening anywhere. And I think it was a necessity. Like that's how they warmed themselves when it was cold. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like you would think if there's constantly a fire to warm yourself, you would think there would be more fires, like accidental fires. I think there probably might have been. I don't know though. I don't know. Historians, weigh in. Thank you. Arsonists, weigh in. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:24:02 Thank you. Personists weigh in. Thank you. Thank you The mansion had 24 rooms and thus maybe 24 chimneys It also had a two-story kitchen which think of the sandwiches you could store in there Oh, but think about how much work it would be to make a f*cking sandwich if you left the mayonnaise upstairs The mayonnaise would just have to rot up there on the counter I would never go back. Sure does forget it And the house had multiple parlor rooms and sitting rooms. And now this is where I obviously did a mini deep dive

Starting point is 00:24:29 and I wanted to ask you if you knew the difference between parlor rooms and sitting rooms. No, I don't. Great, I'm looking and I don't think I figured it out either. Okay, so. Congratulations, we both don't know. According to Reddit, well, there are drawing rooms.

Starting point is 00:24:48 Do you know what a drawing room is? Because my thought is this is free with sketch. Amelia Bedelia thought, which is drawing. I am Amelia Bedelia because apparently I think the same thing. Drawing the curtains? I don't know. Okay, so apparently, I really, fully Amelia Bedelia, I thought, oh, this is, it must be the sunniest room because that's where you can sketch or something.

Starting point is 00:25:09 Like it's like the brightest room, so this is where you do all your art. Apparently it's where you withdraw. Oh, okay. Uh-huh, and apparently it's for special guests only. So it's a small offshoot room. Oh, it's like you're invited into, like to have a cigar in the drawing room.

Starting point is 00:25:27 Yeah, so like if you're having a party, you can go up to someone who you wanna speak more one-on-one with, and you can take them into the drawing room so you can withdraw from the party and have privacy. And you can be like, I have a McClellan's batch, 800 Louis XIV Scotch whiskey if you'd like some. I have an ice cold Nesquik waiting for you

Starting point is 00:25:48 if you wanna follow me into the drawing room. Oh sh*t, is it strawberry? It's whatever you want it to be, it's imaginary. Oh, f*ck yeah. But yes, you got it. Thanks for living in the fantasy with me, Em. As long as you don't say banana, you're still invited to the drawing room.

Starting point is 00:26:01 Well, that was my next, I'll just keep my mouth shut then. That's right. Okay, so a sitting room is to the drawing room. Well, that was my next, I'll just keep my mouth shut then. That's right. Okay, so a sitting room is a modern living room. It was, or I guess it was their version of a living room. So it was a leisure space for casual guests. So anyone could come to the sitting room. Gotcha. And people are probably hanging out in the sitting room,

Starting point is 00:26:19 whether or not guests are there. Gotcha. Now, apparently there's a whole other room called the morning room and not morning like sad because my first thought was a funeral parlor. Oh, sure, sure. All houses had funeral parlors in them. But no, this is like a morning,

Starting point is 00:26:32 like good morning room. In the morning, okay. And it was what I thought a drawing room was and it is the sunniest room in the morning. Oh, because you're getting up and you're having your tea or coffee in the morning room, okay. I don't know the difference between a morning room and a day. Okay. I don't know the difference between a morning room and a day room, and I also don't know the difference

Starting point is 00:26:47 between a day room and a sun room, so we've really got a lot to work with. For God's sake. I mean, it's like not... Imagine the percentage of people back then who actually had all these rooms was so small. You know what I mean? Like, any of us who lived past lives during that time probably never even went inside a drawing room,

Starting point is 00:27:02 because, like... I know. We wouldn't have had access to that. So it's just a wild thought, like, now we have to learn about it. We never even went inside a drawing room because we wouldn't have had access to that. So it's just a wild thought like, now we have to learn about it. We never even got to use it. Well, also like how many of these rooms were actually synonymous

Starting point is 00:27:12 or were they really truly different rooms? Is it like they served different purposes during the day, like throughout the day. So like you would change the name of it from like the morning room to the parlor or is it like literally a separate room? And also like is there a room is there a house out there that had one of each because this place had 24 rooms and it's only saying it had sitting rooms and parlors you couldn't

Starting point is 00:27:33 find room for a f*cking morning room there one out of 24 wasn't the sunniest. Right are there like 20 bedrooms like tell them explain yourself to me. Yeah so apparently there's a morning room I don't know how that compares to other things. Architects, way in. Thank you. Alison's dad, way in. So handymen, way in, I guess. I'm contrasting this.

Starting point is 00:27:53 Archief fathers, way in. So there's, the thing that I said was sitting rooms and parlor rooms. So the sitting room, like I said, is the old version of a living room. Right. The parlor room is the one that's a symbol of status. It's the best room in the house and it's where you go with guests to make good impressions. So it's like the fancy living room, like in the 90s when people would put like plastic

Starting point is 00:28:20 on the couches and you weren't allowed to go into that room. Like the room that a lot of houses had when I was growing up, where it was like a room, everyone had a room you don't sit in and everyone had a room you don't eat in. You don't wear your shoes in there. Yeah. Yeah. The room you don't sit in is a parlor. Although what's so interesting is I guess that would also be a sitting room because it was, it was just a bunch of fancy furniture.

Starting point is 00:28:41 You weren't allowed to sit on. So, so I guess it's not a sitting room. No, no, it's a parlor because it's for fancy only. My mom always called it the phone room because that was where she sat to talk to people on the phone. That was its only purpose. That's creative. Which speaking of which, speaking of which, there's one piece of furniture I want so badly for this house that I got. And I can't get it in this house because we just don't have enough room. But I want you to know in a dream world where I could expand the square footage, the first thing I would be purchasing is a gossip bench, which I'm wondering if they used to be in parlors. Gossip benches, like the chairs with a table attached to them. So like you would put your telephone on it. Oh, look up gossip benches.

Starting point is 00:29:22 Like you would put your telephone on it. Oh, look up gossip benches. I mean, I'm so, so in. So they were like low benches with a table on it and that's where you would keep your telephone and your phone books. Oh, my mom has one of these. You'd put your little- Like a really antique one. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:29:38 And she has the rotary phone on it. Yep. So I want one very badly, just so I have a reason to gossip. Oh they're not that big you can it's just like a it's a teeny little thing. Yeah I will see how the rest of the house pans out first but if I can squeeze my way into one I will find it. I'm already on Victorian Gossip Bench eBay. I want they also make like modern looking gossip benches, which is super fun, which is also kind of ironic.

Starting point is 00:30:07 Oh yeah, Wayfair sells a lot. But that's all I want. And I like to think that would be in the parlor, but maybe not, maybe not, because the parlor is classy and the gossip bench wouldn't be classy. It depends on what kind of gossip. Oh, yeah, you're right about the queen. You could put a gossip bench in there for the queen. For sure. She would love that. Okay anyway the house has a lot of rooms. That's where we got.

Starting point is 00:30:31 The house also has a later got an addition that had a summer kitchen because the two-story kitchen wasn't enough. A wash house, a smoke house, and a milk cooling room. Bitch that's a fridge but okay sure milk cooling room. A milk cooling room. That's that's a fridge, but okay, sure, milk cooling room. A milk cooling room. That's what I'm gonna call my refrigerator for now. It feels like something that Kardashians have for their protein powder or something. Oh, it's just like it keeps it dry and it keeps a perfect amount of moisture.

Starting point is 00:30:57 It's like, oh my God, why? It does sound like something Kris Jenner would put in her immaculate kitchen. Something like unnecessary, yeah. So the house was built in 1858 and this was for Alexander Hannah. He was born in the 1820s and he became a harness maker, which again blows my mind what you could do back then. So he was a harness maker.

Starting point is 00:31:20 He moves to California during the gold rush for a little bit. He ends up owning a ranch. And then he moves back to Indiana and works for the railroad. There's one source that said his dad was the president of the railroad. That feels as similar to me as like call the city. But some other sources said that his dad just worked alongside him. So I don't know if he worked for his dad or with his dad. But he ended up back in Indiana at the railroad. A year after the house was built,

Starting point is 00:31:56 Hannah bought the property to build the house. He bought 240 acres. I don't know what you need with that much acreage, but okay. He apparently also bought this from his dad. So I like to think his dad probably actually was the president of a whole railroad to be able to own that much land. He builds his house. All the brick fun fact cost only $585 for a 24 room mansion, $585.

Starting point is 00:32:26 Oh my gosh. He started farming again and he started using, because remember he co-owned that ranch, so now he's built the house, he starts farming on this new acreage he just bought, using quote, the newest scientific techniques in agriculture. So obviously I was like, what the f*ck does that mean?

Starting point is 00:32:45 And so I decided to look up the newest hip happen in scientific techniques in 1860s agriculture. And this apparently is from ThoughtCo. The early 1860s witnessed a dramatic change from hand power to horses, which historians characterize as the first American agricultural revolution. Okay.

Starting point is 00:33:08 And then the USDA says that this was also when commercial corn and wheat belts were developed. Ooh la la. And in 1862, the US Department of Agriculture, they established the Homestead Act, which gave free land to willing farmers. I remember this. I remember this from AP history.

Starting point is 00:33:31 Yeah. So this was when sharecropping was replacing slavery. And Alexander was an abolitionist. Okay. And he allegedly used his basem*nt to help hide enslaved people running away. Oh, wow. He actually used his property as a allegedly. We don't know. There's no documents because I guess why would you document us and get in trouble? But allegedly his house and especially his

Starting point is 00:33:57 basem*nt was a stop on the Underground Railroad. Okay, great. I mean, if that's true, that's pretty kick ass. Yeah. So in 1872, he ends up marrying a woman named Elizabeth. They only have one child. Apparently, her name was also Elizabeth. And the legend, if you look up a bunch of sites, most of them will tell you that the baby was stillborn. But the truth is that she was born alive, but died two days later, I think from complications.

Starting point is 00:34:27 The baby, Elizabeth? The baby, yeah. Oh no. So that's the main crux of the story is that he got married, only had one child and the child didn't survive. So there's a family plot that they're all now at, including the baby. And Alexander was later in the Indiana General Assembly.

Starting point is 00:34:48 At different times he was a postmaster and a sheriff. It's giving ADHD. He also worked for, again, a toll road. So he went from a railroad to a toll road. It was the first toll road in their area. He collected tolls from people passing through, which I feel like in my mind, at the time when I don't really think of highways as a thing, in the 1800s, I just feel he's standing on a dirt road and he just stops people.

Starting point is 00:35:17 And he's like, I would like a nickel. He's just like has a bag. Yeah. He's like, you owe me. For what? Just trust me,, you owe me. Like, for what? Just trust me. Trust me, bro. Trust me. It's like, trust me, I work for somebody else and you need to pay before you can go any

Starting point is 00:35:30 further on this cobblestone path. It may or may not be my dad who's the president of the road. But either way, you owe me a nickel. Just keep, keep moving. Just keep it moving. Keep it moving. So, fun fact though, the road that he would collect tolls on is now one of the major streets in the area It's still near his house and it is called Hanna Avenue

Starting point is 00:35:49 So yeah, well, okay. So literally his dad might have been the f*cking president who knows of all of the other Yeah, or maybe all the roads who knows? so in the 1880s 1890s Elizabeth and Alexander both die, but the house ends up being taken up by a jewelry businessman, a jeweler, I suppose. And this guy's name, his name is Roman, and his wife Marie, they buy the house after the Hanna's die. Did you say, sorry, what year was that? They move in? 1890s.

Starting point is 00:36:23 1890s, okay. They end up living in this house until the 60s. Or no. Wow. Sorry, Roman and Marie buy it. Their daughter ends up taking over the house and she lives there through the 60s. So it's in the family through the 60s. And the mansion was then vacant but owned by another guy named David. And nevermind, I was gonna make a stupid joke.

Starting point is 00:36:48 So I heard it. I felt it and I just let it happen. And then it was like, nevermind, it got stopped in its tracks. Yeah, I was like, it's time to just keep it going. So in 1968, a couple named the O'Brien's, they moved in. And I think they were, so it was owned by the Hanna's, then it was owned by Roman and his wife Marie. Then it was owned by David,

Starting point is 00:37:14 although it was vacant at the time. So I think the next family, the O'Brien's, rented while David owned it. So it gets kind of complicated because I kept seeing David and then the O'Brien's. Like there's owners who are leasing it out. Yeah, it overlapped, but I think it was, I think they just rent. So they moved in, the O'Brien's in 68, and they opened it as an antique store downstairs in the mansion, but then they lived upstairs. And they were the first ones to actually encounter spirits there. Probably because they were messing up the house so much by making it into an antique store.

Starting point is 00:37:48 Yeah, they're like, this is the parlor and the sitting room and you're turning it into an antique room. What are you doing? They probably messed it all up. Yeah. So I feel like and also the house at this point was already like over 100 years old. So now you're in like a centarian house that's now an antique store. Like talk about the spirits you're bringing in. Oh, fadoofa.

Starting point is 00:38:09 So the people who owned the house, they wanted to get the house on the National Registry of Historic Places. So they started fundraising. So they started holding parties there, including murder mystery dinners. They started doing like music performances, Easter egg hunts. They had flea markets there and art shows

Starting point is 00:38:29 and it was like a wedding venue. They even had a haunted house in the house, which was like so meta, a haunted house in a haunted house. I mean, places do that. Think about Waverly are those places where it's already haunted and then they're like, or Queen Mary and then they're like You're totally right. And now we have dead bodies hanging from the ceiling. It's like

Starting point is 00:38:54 Did you need that? It feels like there was already enough but yeah, there was already enough corpses here. Yeah So we're good But for the murder mystery parties Excuse me heartburn yikes Okay The scariest thing I'll talk about today. For the murder mystery parties, slash Halloween haunted house things, they apparently go so far as to build a secret passageway

Starting point is 00:39:15 into the house. And I say this now because a lot of people apparently go to this house and say like, this house is super creepy, even when the family lived here, there was a secret passageway and like so just to shut it down now the if you ever go the secret passageway was intentionally built for the creep factor. An addition I see okay okay okay that's interesting because I mean I guess that could get complicated with the Underground Railroad you know rumor or or lore about it like maybe there was a secret entrance that was used

Starting point is 00:39:45 You know, I feel like those can get conflated really easily if it already has like this kind of Underground Railroad story behind it So it's good to know that that's not part of it. Yeah, that's oh, yeah, totally didn't even think about that element Yeah, I will tell you to You already know the answer to this there is one thing I'm I am very excited about already know the answer to this. There is one thing I am very excited about already for the house. For your house. Mm-hmm, do you know what it is? Yes, I do know.

Starting point is 00:40:12 Of course I know. Say it. Okay, M and L are creating a, so I'm allowed to talk about it? I feel like it's like off the record. It's not a panic room. Are creating a panic room that it's like off the record. It's not a panic room. Yeah. Are creating a panic room, but it's actually called, it's called a spook-easy. And it's this kind of little annex off the main hallway.

Starting point is 00:40:35 And what they're going to do is put a secret passageway in the door so that you get to enter into the spook-easy with the secret door, a secret passageway. I'm so excited. And apparently their contract or their Realtor's husband already like makes, that was like his COVID project was learning how to make secret entrance, secret passageways. So they were like, perfect, we're in. Oh man. Oh man. It's a, well, because I love my apothecary stuff. Allison's like one big hobby is mixology. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:07 And we both love the Halloween vibe. And we've honestly if we could pick a dream house, we would have gotten like the creepiest Victorian Mansion possible. Like that's that's the dream. And so since we live in Los Angeles tough tough house to find. Yeah, that's why I moved halfway across this damn country. I was like, I can't give up on my dreams. Well, so now we're like, let's compromise on reality

Starting point is 00:41:31 and we'll make one room look like you're inside of spooky Victorian mansion. And it will be our apothecary bar, you know, house and can have a whole space. That'll be perfect, because you guys are so good at, you especially with your prop history, just so good at designing everything to be just right. I'm really excited about it.

Starting point is 00:41:49 It's also somehow being shared as Allison's office. So we're gonna have to figure out like certain tracks or something. So it gets hidden. Cause right now, if she were to go on Zoom and be inside a haunted bar, it will look not great for her corporate job. As Al said, it just blur the background.

Starting point is 00:42:03 It's easy. That's why that exists. So many people live in like studios in New York and stuff and have like You know things in the background. Yeah, so anyway, yes I'm very excited about my secret passageway, and I'm very excited about me to Retiring to the spooky Z every night. Oh I can't wait till you walk in and I'm in there. I'm like I needed a drink I'm trying to turn it into like a mini tavern with like a whole like tabletop and chair So that way it's gonna be either. I'm gonna be there

Starting point is 00:42:35 So Anyway, oh yeah secret passageway, so people think it has a creepier origin to it than it does and that's not the case. Okay but so many people have said that you know as they're constantly coming through that activity has increased ever since they started doing renovations for the Halloween space and the murder mysteries and in 1878 the owners finally got what they wanted and put the house as a, it was a historical landmark and put on the registry. And in 1980, the mansion was also used as a haunted house for preservation funding. And through that paranormal activity also grew.

Starting point is 00:43:16 So I think it's just, I don't know if it's like mocking the house or just so many people are coming in with like vulnerable, you know, they're bringing in kind of scaredy cats and that's allowing things to open up. And probably like stirring stuff up, just even asking it to come out and asking to interact with it and stuff. And the Hannah House is now also rented out for social events, I guess, or it was for a time period.

Starting point is 00:43:40 Cool. Now investigators are some of the main tourists here. The owner has even hosted events here on National Paranormal Day where a bunch of investigators all come out at once. Ooh! And investigators can actually book the location and the house offers haunted tours, overnight investigations. At one point, I don't know if it was because they were so desperately trying to bring people in so that

Starting point is 00:44:07 way they could get more funding, but they like wanted people to ghost hunt here and they were trying to like sell it to people as if you go ghost hunting here, we will give you free pizza. Oh, okay. I mean, f*ck it. I'm in. I mean, if you've got a summer kitchen and a two story kitchen, why not throw some pizza down in there? Why not?

Starting point is 00:44:25 A summer kitchen. Do you know how much... Talk about Nesquik. That milk cooling room is probably just full of Nesquik strawberry and banana, just for me. Oh, you know what? I hope it's being put to use. I hope it was put to use in good ways other than just cooling milk.

Starting point is 00:44:42 You got to get adventurous if you're're gonna build a whole room for cooling. You know, you gotta be able to. You gotta multipurpose that, you know? I would also suggest that if it's gonna be hot there every now and then, maybe it's just a human cooling room. It feels like. Oh, good call. You could just hang out in there.

Starting point is 00:44:58 If they didn't have air conditioning back then, they only had one cold room. Very good point. Like, oh, and milk happens to be here. That's what I would think. Just ignore the milk, that's not part of it. Yeah, it would be air conditioned rooms featuring milk. Damn.

Starting point is 00:45:13 That's a dream room for me. That is actually, I kind of hate it, but good for you. And I've never seen a place like desperately want people to go go something that they'll also fund pizza for you. That sounds like a Chuck E. Cheese event for adults. It sure does. My dream. Now, here's a fun thing that I put in there past M was wise because I have a fun fact

Starting point is 00:45:37 in here that says, fun fact about the Hannah House. The first ever horror comedy soap opera was shot here. What? It was called Creeporia. It is on YouTube. It is bad. What? It is not good. What is? When was it from? I don't know when it was from, but it feels like early 2000s.

Starting point is 00:46:02 Oh, my. And allegedly it was developed by the same guy, his name is John Semper Jr. This guy wrote for shows like Smurfs and Fraggle Rock and Rugrats and Spider-Man and DuckTales. So he had a really good resume and then I saw Creeporia and now I'm kind of judging what he was about. He flew too close to the sun. I feel like maybe his own kids were in it and he was like, oh, I guess I'll help. And it's just not good.

Starting point is 00:46:31 If you want something to cringe at, you can go watch Creeporia. Another fun fact is one of the portraits above the mantle here is a post-mortem portrait of a child. Oh, dear. Oh, dear. Oh dear, oh dear. Her name is Hazel. She was apparently related to some of the owners of the house.

Starting point is 00:46:50 So she's not even like someone who died in this house. They just, the owners happened to find it in their own attic and then thought it was creepy enough to just put in this haunted house. So, and apparently her eyes had to be drawn into the portrait because they were closed. Oh, God. And people say her eyes that were drawn into the portrait follow you when you walk around

Starting point is 00:47:14 the room. So that's the first potential ghost thing that happens there or people are reading into it. I don't love that. As for that, because Hazel did not die in the house, but the people who did die in the house, one was Alexander Hannah himself. He apparently had did not die in the house, but the people who did die in the house, one was Alexander Hannah himself. He apparently had a heart attack in the house. Then Marie, who was one of the people who owned the house after him.

Starting point is 00:47:36 And again, the Hannah's baby died from complications in the house. Elizabeth. Yeah. They were the main deaths. The main deaths here are when it was part of the Underground Railroad. So you've got those three and then the main deaths during the Underground Railroad were allegedly seven to eight, they think.

Starting point is 00:47:57 Their best guess is seven to eight enslaved people were hiding in the basem*nt one night and someone tipped over the oil lamp and the basem*nt caught on fire and they were stuck in the basem*nt. They were either trapped or they were too afraid to run, but they all died and somehow it was actually from smoke inhalation and not the fire itself. I think I don't even ever really realize how often smoke inhalation is actually the cause of death. Yeah. And so their best guess is just under 10 people. When Alexander came back to check on them, they assumed he was either at work or in his house,

Starting point is 00:48:39 and he just didn't know what was going on. When it happened, and he saw all these people had passed in his home because they were runaways, he couldn't tell anyone what happened. And so part of the legend is that he ended up burying what was left of them in that basem*nt where they died. Oh.

Starting point is 00:48:57 And now the basem*nt is concreted over, so there's no way to know, I guess. And there's still no document of it. I guess you can use ground penetrating radar. I guess so. But there's no, to know, I guess. And there's still no document of it. I guess you can use ground-penetrating radar. I guess so. But there's no... Unless they do that, there's no documentation of this. It's just a story, and, like, you...

Starting point is 00:49:13 Not that you hope that that happened to people, but you hope no one's faking that story either. Yeah, it's almost like, I hope it's not real because what a horrifying tale. Like, maybe it just got blown out of proportion from another story, or it just, like, built up some sort of lore over time. I don't know. That's sad.

Starting point is 00:49:31 The only evidence that does exist is that near the property, there are partially collapsed tunnels that nobody originally knew about, and so it suggested that there really was an underground railroad pass per, like, point. Oh, wow, okay. Through that area. So we don't know, but it's told enough

Starting point is 00:49:52 that it's become part of the house's legend. And now just for the ghosts, people here have heard huge crashes like breaking glass in the basem*nt and when they check nothing has happened. I should mention too, some of the glass in the basem*nt and when they check nothing has happened. I should mention too some of the jars in the basem*nt because there's a whole wall that still looks like someone is canning goods there. And they're from like one of the original owners of the house. And they've also passed away so like their own canned goods are still

Starting point is 00:50:22 just sitting on the shelves. Whoa. Yeah. So anyway, people hear huge crashes like breaking glass down there and then there's nothing that has gone amiss. Civilware will fly across the room. Pictures will swing on the walls by themselves. Doors will open and close even when they're locked or when they're left locked. The O'Brien's who created the, they lived there and also turned it into an antique museum

Starting point is 00:50:46 or an antique shop. Their daughter, I guess, moved in at one point, or the family moved in and brought their daughter when she was very young, and she would talk to somebody on the stairs. And she said that he looked grandfatherly and called him dad. Like in front of her own dad.

Starting point is 00:51:04 Rude! But so she would just talk to, and then I hope they just never brought that kid back to the house. I hope so also. People hear voices and footsteps and I feel like I always, name an episode where I don't say voices and footsteps at some point, but people also hear rustling clothing as if someone is moving around the house.

Starting point is 00:51:27 People feel cold drafts. Other doors and windows are seen opening and closing. People hear loud scratching from inside the walls. Electronics will turn on and off by themselves, including the stereo, which has been known to play music. And then I guess the ghosts don't like the music and they just like pull the f*cking cord. They're like, play music. And then I guess the ghosts don't like the music, and they just pull the f*cking cord. They're like, nope, no music.

Starting point is 00:51:46 Yeah, they're like, where's my old timey? I don't know what they listen to. If you're not dancing to the Charleston, it's not music. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You get it. People smell cigar smoke in some of the rooms, and they smell roses in others, which is interesting because it's kind of

Starting point is 00:52:04 all coming back to me. As I was looking up the sitting rooms versus parlor rooms thing, it would have made sense for the house to have a parlor room for men and a parlor room for women because they apparently didn't actually... Men and women didn't sit in the same rooms together. Yeah. So if some rooms smell like cigars and some smell like roses, it could be

Starting point is 00:52:25 that they were separate parlor rooms. Some people have also smelled candles, but here's the thing. They say they smell candles, but really they smell candles being blown out like sulfur. And they also smell rotting flesh, which is very demonic. My guess with the candles and sulfur is that they're actually smelling the fire.

Starting point is 00:52:49 Oh, Jesus Christ. Because of this rotting flesh smell, I feel like this is something I would throw in as a true or false, and it would obviously be a throwaway false. But apparently, this is an actual factoid of the house. Because it's so known for smelling like rotting flesh. There's a rumor that this house is nicknamed throughout town as the house that reeks of death.

Starting point is 00:53:13 Whoa. Wait, there's a rumor that is called that or. I'm saying it's a rumor because I saw it on actually like weirdly too many sources, but I still can't really believe it. So I'm like, OK, it has to be a rumor. That can't be real. No, but apparently still can't really believe it. So I'm like, okay, it has to be a rumor. That can't be real. No, I feel like that's probably, they call it that. Maybe, okay, well then the house is called- People call things weirder words.

Starting point is 00:53:32 The house is called the house that reeks of death. Jesus. Like, let me see what happens if I, have you ever just typed in the house that reeks of what? Death? Of death. It said cat pee. Is that what you want to look up?

Starting point is 00:53:43 I'm like, oh maybe maybe not Oh, okay, maybe not it's not coming up type in indie in Indiana though No, so apparently I could not find anything about it. So who knows? Oh, okay. Well, you might be I'm gonna go back to saying rumor Yeah, so um One news crew came out and the staff in the dining room, they said, wouldn't it be wild if the camera crew caught the room's chandelier swinging? Wouldn't it be wild?

Starting point is 00:54:16 While you're in here, wouldn't it be so silly if you saw the chandelier swinging? And then it happened. As soon as they said it, they were like, oh. We should try that more often. Someone's listening. Wouldn't it be so silly if there was like a demonic possession? Wouldn't that be so silly? Crews also, oh the same crew sorry, the same news crew that came in and got the chandelier. They also witnessed a portrait lifting off the nail on the wall and fall to the ground.

Starting point is 00:54:42 You and I can attest to that. Yeah. We have seen that as well. Certainly have. And the attic is apparently the most haunted. Some people have actual trouble getting in there without feeling really sick, and like they shouldn't be there. Some say the darkest energy in the house is up there, and shadows will peek around corners at you. Some of the staff is in the house is up there and shadows will peek around corners at you. Some of the staff is just afraid to go to the attic. They won't even mess with it. And what's weird is there isn't anything that's happened historically up there.

Starting point is 00:55:16 So we don't know what happened for there to be such a dark energy up in the attic. In the basem*nt, there are apparitions of enslaved people, shadows hiding, which is so sad if it's shadows hiding, as if they're like, they still think they have to hide. And a woman, presumably Elizabeth, his wife, is seen looking out the window and sometimes pacing the porch. People have said that they're just standing on the stairs

Starting point is 00:55:42 and looking out the windows, and there's just a woman hanging out on the porch, and they assume she's just another person visiting the porch. People have said that they're just standing on the stairs and looking out the windows and there's just a woman hanging out on the porch and they assume she's just another person visiting the house. People driving by have claimed to see a man walking around in the front yard and sometimes even riding a pony. And it's just like clear as day I guess and they're like oh look at that man riding a pony in the front yard. Full it's actually supposedly- Full body apparition of the pony too. I know, what did the pony do? He should be a fun for him. Well I hope it's just a, what do you call it?

Starting point is 00:56:11 Residual like maybe image, you know? That's what I tell myself. Yeah, yeah, okay, that's true, that's true. On the stairs people have seen a man who we think is Alexander. He's in an old-fashioned black suit and he is sporting some really thick mutton chops on his head apparently. And he fades away on the stairs after you see him. Now I have bolded the word mutton chops which tells me in my notes I have something to say.

Starting point is 00:56:40 Oh I can't wait. Oh, here we go. I love past M because it literally says, note for mutton chops, tried to look up history of it, found nothing, but did find fun fact about sideburns. Oh, look at me go. That was good to say, yeah, burn sides, general burn sides, right? Okay, well that was the fun part. Sorry, I thought we all learned that in history class.

Starting point is 00:57:02 I thought I was getting an A plus on my test. Well, you are the teacher's pet currently where everyone's like, boo, we didn't even get to hear the prompt. I'm sorry you can cut it. No, no, no. But yes, apparently sideburns were originally called burn sides

Starting point is 00:57:18 because of the Union General Ambrose Burnside. And he wore that as a hairstyle. His unique facial hairstyle, yeah. So yes, there's my fun fact. There's your fun fact. So when the O'Briens lived here, they saw Alexander standing on the stairs. Also he had his mutton chops and he would just walk around upstairs, just kind of having his own day.

Starting point is 00:57:43 And they would also hear voices so often that they just started yelling at him to stop. They were like, you're pissing me off. They would hear moaning, whispering, mumbled voices from empty rooms. Like apparently so loudly, they couldn't even watch TV at night. And that's what really set them off.

Starting point is 00:57:58 Well, that's infuriating. I know. People have gotten grabbed and pushed. They have gotten pictures of clear as day figures, which actually I watched a YouTube video of one of the tour guides there. And she showed a picture of her phone where it was by the the secret passageway. And there's a full ass person in the picture. And she's like, no, nobody was in this.

Starting point is 00:58:21 Oh, weird lights appear in the basem*nt. Staff have a hard time breathing and sometimes even feel overwhelmed in certain rooms, like overwhelming emotions. Usually the whole house has welcoming vibes and in the main areas, at least. And it's said that in the main areas, it's more feminine energy. But the basem*nt and the attic feel very different. They feel very intense. There was a movie called Witch House, which filmed here, and the crew kept hearing kids

Starting point is 00:58:50 running around upstairs and they thought someone brought their kid to work, I guess. So they kept saying, whoever brought the kids, they need to leave. Shut up. And nobody had brought kids. But imagine being the sound guy and your whole job is to get clear audio news, keep hearing. Because I mean, if you have the big headphones on and you're listening in real time, you're probably hearing EVPs in real time. And nobody else can hear the footsteps. And he's just like, can you get these kids out of here? And everyone's like, what the f*ck are you talking about?

Starting point is 00:59:15 What are you even talking about? Women are heard humming in the halls. And when you ask for it to happen again, people have gotten knocking on the walls. There are EVPs such as, this is just, the EVPs impress me. I feel like all of them are like full sentences. Really long? Yeah. So one of the EVPs people have gotten is, can you get, can you get out of here? Yikes. Okay. Another one is help me, which is so sad. Another one is, hey Rob. And Rob apparently used to work at the house.

Starting point is 00:59:51 Hey Rob. Hey Rob. And then another one is, can't you feel me? Ew, ew, ew. That means they're up close. Oh no. That means they want you to feel them too. Oh no, no, no, no, no.

Starting point is 01:00:06 On the show, okay, oh, this is, I did have a note about this too. The Paranormal Files is a show on YouTube. They did a pretty incredible job at this house, but it was a two hour YouTube show. I did not watch all of it. I only watched a chunk of it, but the chunk that I watched was really good.

Starting point is 01:00:27 If you are someone who was like cleaning today, or if you've got like chores going on in the background, you wanna put something on, on your TV, watch the Hannah House episode of the Paranormal Files on YouTube, because it's two hours of really good stuff. Oh, I'm gonna watch that too. It's, equipment was freaking out the entire time.

Starting point is 01:00:45 Almost all of it came through from intelligent responses. Their ovulus said Manitoba, which they... Manitoba. I guess, so one of the next stops, I guess on the Underground Railroad after this was getting to Canada, getting to... Whoa. Their ovulus also said, we live in the shadows.

Starting point is 01:01:05 Ooh. It also said there's evil everywhere. Ooh. They got a lot of yes or no responses from the REM pod. And the ovulus even said yes a lot, like just openly yes to their questions. When they asked were there ever enslaved people in the house,

Starting point is 01:01:25 they got on the ovulus the word agree. And then they have this thing called a dead bell where if you, it's like an EMF, but it's like an EMF machine, but instead of spiking, like instead of having like a bright light go up anytime that the machine says yes, it looks like a literal bell and it will ding in response to you.

Starting point is 01:01:45 Like a bell on like a countertop or like a swing bell. Like you're at a concierge of a hotel. And you're obnoxious and you're like, I need customer service. Okay, got it. Yeah, so that it'll go off as yes or no responses and they were able to get a lot of response from the bell. They got phrases such as, people can't hear me, little boy around you, there are children around

Starting point is 01:02:13 here. Absolutely. And then they said, can you ring the bell if the person in the attic will hurt us? And the bell rings. And then the ovula said, look above. No, no thank you. They were right under the attic. No, thank you. Two different devices at the same time said brother and sibling to kind of like confirm that the machines were getting the same energy

Starting point is 01:02:37 or the same kind of vibe. Yeah. They were trying to figure out someone's name and then they got the words fill up. And so they think that maybe they were trying to figure out someone's name, and then they got the words Phil up, and so they think that maybe they were trying to use the words Phil and up in the machine to say Philip. And when they said, oh, maybe his name's Philip, then the ovula said Jackpot.

Starting point is 01:02:55 Whoa, Jackpot? That's pretty good. Then they asked. And then they were like, maybe his name was Jackpot. And it was like, no, you've gone too far. Then they asked, is it an angry man that's upstairs? And the ovula said, untrue. And then they said, ring the bell if it's an angry woman.

Starting point is 01:03:15 And then the bell rings. Then they got the phrases, hide and you're being followed. Oh my god. It's almost hard to tell what's with the history, like hide to the enslaved people, or is it like hide actively right now? And you're being followed. It's like hide, you're being followed,

Starting point is 01:03:35 and you're on the underground railroads. Is it that, or is it like currently you're in danger as you stand there? Yeah, yikes. So anyway, that was just a very small chunk of a two hour show I did not watch all of. So if you want to there's a shout out to Paranormal Files. Yeah, maybe we can I texted it to the group so maybe we can put in the show notes and that way I can also remember to watch. Oh, good. Well, anyway, that is the the Hannah

Starting point is 01:03:59 House. That was so good. And wait, can you remind me what town it's in in Indiana? I don't know where in Indiana. I just I'm curious. I should know. Hannah House, let's see. Oh, OK, sorry. That's also the name of like a treatment facility. Indiana. Oh, it looks like it is in. Oh, Indianapolis. Oh, that's not far from me.

Starting point is 01:04:22 You know, Indianapolis is one of the only places on tour I didn't get to spend a lot of time in. Oh, well, well, fun. That's not far from me. You know, Indianapolis is one of the only places on tour I didn't get to spend a lot of time in. Oh, well, well, well. Looks like we have somewhere to go now. Would you ever want to do an investigation there? Sure. Yeah, is there anywhere you're like, absolutely not? I'm just curious.

Starting point is 01:04:42 That's a good question. I don't know why I've decided now is the time to ask that, but. No, we're still learning about each other. We are. Isn't that romantic after all these years? Where do I not want to go? Do you like pina coladas?

Starting point is 01:04:55 I do like getting caught in the rain. Oh, do you? And I like virgin pina coladas. And I like virgins. Um. Oh, well. Sorry. Depending on your definition, I'm right here. Sorry, that was so inappropriate.

Starting point is 01:05:11 Intrusive thoughts. Let's see. Win again. Is there a place you wouldn't go? I feel like I... Maybe some very demonic place that is like, people get possessed there all the time, you know? Like that kind of freaks me out, like, where people leave and say,

Starting point is 01:05:27 oh, it followed us home and it ruined my life. Like, I'm like, I don't think I want to play that game, you know? I mean, that's like a fair one. Yeah, yeah. So anything like, like if Zach Bangans is like, I don't ever want to go back, I'm terrified, which I feel like, you know, sometimes he says for clout or whatever, but if it were like a real spot where investigators are like, oh, no, it damaged my life pretty badly. I think I'd be like, yeah

Starting point is 01:05:46 No, I feel like Zach Zach bang is is actually like a good Yeah, he's he's so he gives off such like the vibe of like I'm not afraid of anything If he's actually afraid and like doesn't say I don't want to go back just to go back and like make it a whole spectacle Right if he really never goes back. I just silently and doesn't say, I don't want to go back, just to go back and make it a whole spectacle. If he really never goes back, I would not go there. Yeah, it's almost like scarier if he doesn't make it a big thing, just as like, nope, we're not even gonna address it.

Starting point is 01:06:13 Yeah, like he, actually in Indiana, I think one of the houses that he say never go back to was- Oh yes, yes, in Gary. Was the Amon's house, and it was like a- In Gary. Like the demon house, it was called the demon Yeah. And it was like a... In Gary. The demon house. It was called the demon house.

Starting point is 01:06:27 And that was why he had to start wearing glasses because something like flew across the room and hit him in the head. And now his eyesight's all f*cked up. Sorry. I laughed because those were the most obnoxious glasses. And it's like, okay. He went from, I don't wear glasses to look at my glasses. To like, you can basically define me by my glasses now.

Starting point is 01:06:46 Which listen, it's his prerogative, okay? Wow. Yeah, I think if there was a place that other people are just like, don't even f*cking try it. No. I mean, I think about the Sadamsville rectory that's nearby you.

Starting point is 01:07:02 And there was a lot of possession situations there. Oh really? Where people were standing in corners, like the Blair Witch Project. that's nearby you, and there was a lot of possession situations there. People were standing in corners, like a Blair Witch project. Oh, no, no, no, no. Like their faces were in the corner, and they would stand there for like, they would lose hours of time, and they would just stand there.

Starting point is 01:07:17 Forget it. They would go, the owner once, I think, went over to check the mail, and didn't even plan on going inside, and then six hours later, his wife was like, where the f*ck did he go? No over to like check the mail and didn't even plan on going inside and then like six hours later his wife was like where the f*ck did he go and went to the house and found him just sitting in the basem*nt silently. Eww! Okay f*ck I have chills that's horrible.

Starting point is 01:07:33 Like sh*t like that I'm like man not for me. I think not. And then they tried to turn that sh*t into an Airbnb afterwards too and I'm like how like do you put out a release are you just hoping to not tell anybody? Like, I will, I will take it upon me to stand right off the property, one centimeter off the property until anyone coming to look at this Airbnb or this apartment building, like, let me know. Here's a pamphlet. This is what you're getting into. Because that's not fair. All right. So, um, I have one of those cases for you today that drives us both crazy, which is an unsolved case.

Starting point is 01:08:12 Yeah. Man, I can already tell I'm gonna need two FLTs after this. Okay. You might. I'm gonna have an FLT as well, and it's my little seltzer. I was gonna say, what's your FLT of choice? Okay, well, I'm drinking my cycling frog, wild cherry THC seltzer.

Starting point is 01:08:28 And I wanna give a heads up because some people get all antsy that I'm like always high in the episodes. And I'm like, I think one time I mentioned that I will sometimes take like half an edible and stuff, not during recording really, but just in general. And then people have started translating that to like Christine's always high

Starting point is 01:08:44 and the podcast has changed and I'm like, no, I'm just my normal way of being. And sometimes it probably sounds like I'm high probably before I ever even tried weed before. So don't worry. But yeah, so I'm gonna drink this. It's very low THC and it'll probably won't kick in anyway till the end of the episode.

Starting point is 01:09:02 So don't expect any funsies. Just in time for my dad to come over cause he's visiting and I'm like, ugh, okay. Excellent, excellent. I don't know how to entertain you cause. Amen, I would not know how to entertain my dad. I guess I have a parlor. I'd be like, you can go home.

Starting point is 01:09:17 A sitting room? I don't know what it's called. I have a living room. You have, yours is a, yours I think was supposed to be a parlor but has become a sitting room. Yes. Oh, okay. Wait. So which what's the parlor? Is that the fancy one?

Starting point is 01:09:30 The parlor is like the fancy one where like people only like really get up to your front door. I think it was traditionally a parlor. Like it was meant to be like just really fancy Victorian furniture and like you weren't supposed to sit in there because it has this like crazy fireplace and ceiling. It's probably meant to be like the show offy part. And then we have like the TV room, which is where we actually just lay around and watch TV. The sitting room. Exactly. Yeah. You're it's definitely become a sitting room because I feel like anytime I go over to your house, that room

Starting point is 01:10:04 gets used as often as any other room. But it's only when people come over. We never sit in there unless it's like visitors are there, which is interesting. Yeah, but it's weird that you have really leaned into, whether it's on purpose or not, you really leaned into the, let's hang out in the sitting room energy. Yeah, well, and it's also Leona's office. Actually, I'll be honest, she calls it Leona's office, or she calls it her office.

Starting point is 01:10:30 So essentially, if we're like, like we'll literally day to day be like, oh, have you seen my iPad? Yeah, it's in Leona's office. Like we literally call it that because my mom said it one time and then Leona was like, yeah, that's my office. Um, so I think we like to hang out in there.

Starting point is 01:10:46 I mean, I do use it when people come over because it's like prettier and usually cleaner because we don't hang out in there. So I'm like, and it's sunnier and I'm like, let's sit here, it's such a prettier spot. It is also the day room. Yeah, exactly. And over the other part of the house,

Starting point is 01:10:59 it's just like dog slobber everywhere and toddler crumbs. And so it's kind of like- And where I nap. And where you nap. So it's a cleaner spot. So I think that's usually why. Anyway, sorry. So that's where I'm at.

Starting point is 01:11:11 I was just gonna say, you are the only person I know, like our generation or like my mom's friends, you're the only person I know who like encourages that we sit in the room without a TV. Which I, I like every time I go over my, because I think just out of like reflex now, my thought would be, oh, we're gonna go hang out

Starting point is 01:11:32 and like put something on the TV and then talk over the TV. You know what's so funny is I just never did that. Like growing up, like I feel like that's what normal families do, like when Blaze's parents come over, they always like turn the TV on and I'm like, what are you watching? And they're like, I don't know. And I'm like, what do you mean?

Starting point is 01:11:45 Well, it's like how we watch Ghost Adventures, but we don't really watch Ghost Adventures. But I struggle with that so hard, because I'm like, well, then I feel like I have to pay attention. Like, I don't know, I'm mentally ill, in case you're wondering. I think it's intentionally to block out

Starting point is 01:11:55 any awkward silences these days. It's like, oh, well, if we put a thing on, then once there's an awkward silence, we can just defer to the show and be like, oh, here's a comment I have about the show. Well, when you put it that way, it sounds great. Although I thought that was what we were all doing. Maybe it's too late for me now. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:12:12 Maybe. I don't know. Anyway, tell me a horrible thing that I'm going to get mad about. Great. So this is the disappearance of the Klein brothers. And it takes place in the fifties. So we're going back in time a little bit. The year is 1951 and Elizabeth, also known as Betty Klein, and her husband, Kenneth Klein,

Starting point is 01:12:31 lived together in a neighborhood called Hawthorne on the north side of Minneapolis, Minnesota. They were raising four sons together, nine-year-old Gordon, eight-year-old Kenneth Jr., six-year-old David, and four-year-old Daniel. All four boys were best friends. Adults described them as inseparable. The three youngest especially looked up to Gordon, who was nine years old. And he almost took on like that older sibling nurturing role,

Starting point is 01:12:57 which is so sweet to think of like four little boys and the oldest is like nurturing for the youngest. I just think that's adorable. Especially when you think of the fifties, because I feel like there's always that kind of idea of like boys have to be tough and, you know, beat each other with sticks. Yeah, there's, sadly, especially in the 50s, at least the last thing you think of with boys is like nurturing.

Starting point is 01:13:18 I know, I know. So that made my heart kind of full. He was, Gordon the oldest was a very responsible child, So that made my heart kind of full. Gordon the oldest was a very responsible child. And Kenneth, their father worked at Northland Dairy Company, which provided his family a pretty stable home and income. And he was also very close with the family. He made sure to spend time with them. He taught his sons to fish, for example.

Starting point is 01:13:41 And Betty, meanwhile, did the classic 50s role. She stayed home raising the boys and she was actually pregnant with her fifth child at this point. And when she was busy, she could count on Gordon to keep an eye on the younger boys because he was just good at being the responsible older brother.

Starting point is 01:13:59 He often took his younger brothers to Fairview, which was a park that was just a few blocks away from the house. Many children in the neighborhood spent their time there, oftentimes unsupervised by adults. It was just like you run a block down the road and you can play at the park and meet your friends. It was close enough to home that they could walk there pretty safely, especially in groups with older children. And instead of taking the sidewalks, it was pretty common for kids to take shortcuts through people's yards for a more direct route to the park. So Betty,

Starting point is 01:14:32 actually fun fact was one of nine or sorry, one of 10 siblings. What? And the Duggar? Okay. I know, I know. And her younger brother, Jim, the boy's uncle, was pretty close to his nephew's age, because there was such a big age gap between her and her younger brother, that her younger brother was actually close in age to her own kids, which is kind of fun. You know when there's like an aunt or uncle?

Starting point is 01:14:57 Yeah, that's true, that's true. And so he sometimes spent time at their house in the city playing with the other boys, like they were his own brothers brothers and they loved him and took him in like he was one of their own. All four Klein boys were known in the neighborhood to be very well behaved boys who followed the rules. Nobody ever really worried about them. Saturday, November 10th, 1951 is when everything went south. Saturday, November 10th, 1951 is when everything went south. So this day was cold, a very cold day. And when you're thinking Minneapolis, I imagine cold takes on a whole other level of meaning. A cold day in Minneapolis, but for whatever reason,

Starting point is 01:15:35 David Daniel and Kenneth Jr. desperately wanted to go play at the park. But Betty was very busy and she was seven months pregnant with her fifth child. Yeah, she's like, leave me alone. She's like, it's cold as F out there But Betty was very busy and she was seven months pregnant with her fifth child. Yeah. She's like, leave me alone. She's like, it's cold as F out there and you want me to walk over there? And Gordon was busy too.

Starting point is 01:15:53 Sources differ on what he was doing, but he later said in an interview that he was repairing the sheath of his hunting knife because the side had come undone and because he was, I mean, he was only nine, but he was very responsible and he wanted to stitch it back together and get the project done by the end of the day. Was the Allison of the group, it seems. I actually have to look at my spreadsheet for a little bit.

Starting point is 01:16:13 He would know how to call the city, I'll tell you that. He absolutely would know how to call the city. And so he said, you know what, why don't you boys go to the park to his brothers and I'll meet you afterward. So the young boys went ahead and he said, "'I'll be there soon.'" After a lot of begging, Betty relented, said,

Starting point is 01:16:31 "'All right, fine. As long as Gordon meets up with you, you can go early.'" So the boys actually had an established spot at the park where they always met each other. Like if two of them were meeting up later, they would go to the same specific spot to meet up with their other brothers. And it was this large old tree beside a sandbox at the northwest end of Fairview Park. So the three of them set out in their winter coats. Kenneth was

Starting point is 01:16:57 wearing a bright red jacket and so was four-year-old Daniel, but his was a snowsuit. Pretty soon after, Gordon finished his project and left to meet his brothers, but when he got to the park, they were nowhere to be seen. At first, he wasn't worried because again, he's just nine years old. He's thinking like, oh, maybe I, they just forgot to meet up at our spot. So he assumed he would run into them soon enough. He searched the entire park, especially near the rendezvous spot by the tree. And when he felt like he'd been as thorough as possible and checked every single spot, he ran home to tell his mom that he couldn't find his three younger brothers. So she called

Starting point is 01:17:37 Kenneth at work and he drove straight home, left work to look for his sons. He took Gordon with him to help look and they started driving around the neighborhood in case the boys had gotten sidetracked somehow between the house and the park. Maybe they had stopped at a friend's house, who knows? And of course, you know, it's understandable that young children could get distracted or lost, but these kids had gone to this park from their house

Starting point is 01:18:00 so many countless times that it wasn't like, oh, they would have just accidentally took a right turn instead of a left turn. Like there's some somewhere along the path. Something had to happen. Something, exactly. Something must have happened. Otherwise it's not like they're wandering

Starting point is 01:18:14 on the wrong street. Like they knew where they were going. At home, Betty called the police who pretty much brushed her off saying that they couldn't start a search until the boys were missing for 24 hours, which even though that was protocol back then, it's pretty shocking because this is a Minnesota cold, a cold day in Minnesota and the youngest boy is four years old and they're like out missing.

Starting point is 01:18:40 And it's like the police are like, no, we have to wait 24 hours. And to me, I'm just like, who made that call? It's just a stupid f*cking call. So a couple of police officers reportedly did drive through the neighborhood, but they didn't like really search. They just kind of did like a loop and patrol, didn't see anything and went back. But thankfully, the clients had neighbors who were willing to jump into action and help. So together, the neighborhood searched had neighbors who were willing to jump into action and help. So together,

Starting point is 01:19:05 the neighborhood searched by car, on foot, and they looked everywhere for these three boys. At the time, neither Betty nor Kenneth even considered foul play. It was not even at the top of anyone's mind at this point in time. They assumed maybe the boys got lost or injured somewhere and were stuck. But with night falling and temperatures swiftly dropping, they would be in danger even if they were just sitting on a sidewalk somewhere, you know, perfectly unharmed. Right. I mean, it was already cold when they wanted to go to the park. At night, it's going to be frigid.

Starting point is 01:19:36 Exactly. And it's, I mean, Minnesota winter, like this is no joke. Yeah. And it gets dark early. And immediately, it's not like, oh, they just ran off and forgot the time. I mean, it's so cold that they would have wanted to come home by now. Yes, true. It's not like they're out having fun for 12 hours.

Starting point is 01:19:52 Exactly. That's a good point. They would have wanted to be somewhere warm at this point. And so by dark, unfortunately, there was still no sign of the three brothers. So people were basically forced to go home and give up until the sun came up the next day, which that's always the thing I think about with these cases, where it's like, when the sun goes down,

Starting point is 01:20:12 like there's just, you feel helpless, like I just have to wait, and who knows what could be happening out there. It's just terrible. So late that night, the police called the Klein home for an update. They said, oh, did the boys make it home? And they were like, no, they didn't make it home.

Starting point is 01:20:27 They're still missing. So they're a little too chipper. Yeah, like, oh, they made it home, right? Nope. They were assuming they had just run away, but no, they had not made it home. So the police finally said, all right, fine. We'll get organized and start our search in earnest.

Starting point is 01:20:42 So the next morning, that is what happened. The official search began. The boy's disappearance was immediately major news. It had front page coverage on newspapers in several major Midwest cities, and one news station sent reporters to the neighborhood to cover the story. And this was a time period when just 9%

Starting point is 01:21:00 of American households had TVs. So if television coverage was made of an event, that was a really big deal. Like the fact that a TV station sent a reporter down means like it was big news because there weren't a million channels and everybody could report on the hippo being born at the Cincinnati Zoo. You know, this was like a really big deal. Not that the hippo was not a big deal, but you know what I mean. Yes.

Starting point is 01:21:28 So Betty made an appearance on television at this point and you can still listen to it. It's very hard to watch, at least for me. She said, look everywhere in your basem*nts, in your attics, any place they could be there. I'm sure they're cold. Oh, it just makes me feel terrible. I'm sure they're cold." Oh, it just makes me feel terrible. Ugh, I'm sure they're cold as hard as...

Starting point is 01:21:47 It's horrible. It's horrible. She said, I'm very grateful for all the help that we've got. And she sounds almost like... I don't know if she was sedated, but she sounds almost sedated by, like, either shock or medicine. I don't know, but she just sounds very forlorn and, like... She's probably already fried.

Starting point is 01:22:06 Yes, yes. That's exactly the word. She probably hasn't slept. She's probably desperate. Like it just sounds so detached almost, and it makes it extra sad, in my opinion. So she genuinely believed that her sons were still alive or holed up somewhere,

Starting point is 01:22:21 that somebody could find them in their shed or somewhere they were hiding out and bring them home. And she still had not considered foul play. And like, if you think about it back then, it just wasn't a widely publicized thing that people, that kids got kidnapped from in the bright light of day, you know, that just wasn't really something people considered until like, I think probably the seventies when that there was kind of that surge. So the Hawthorne families or the neighborhood families

Starting point is 01:22:50 were all on edge. This was really an unthinkable occurrence. Kids played outside on their own all the time. And this park was just a couple blocks away, all their kids, all the neighborhood kids played in the park and walked in and back with no problem. And now people were suddenly like on edge, nervous, protective. One man who was a child in the neighborhood when the Klein brothers vanished later said he remembered that his mom would actually accompany him

Starting point is 01:23:18 all the way to the park and back, even though that was like unheard of before this event. Yeah, he wasn't allowed to go out on his own or with other kids anymore, even in a group without an adult present. And this is just how people kind of shifted their lifestyles. That's how it worked for, when we moved to Fredericksburg, I guess, the year before I got there

Starting point is 01:23:42 or the year that we were there, it was originally like, oh, play outside and I don't care and I'm not even gonna think about where you are but within like Right around the same time that we got there. There were two girls that lived in our area and They were abducted and like killed like there's like two and they were two girls my age apparently So my mom panicked and was like f*ck, and there were two girls my age apparently. So my mom panicked and was like, f*ck that. Like you're just not gonna go outside unless I'm with you.

Starting point is 01:24:09 So I feel like it's probably a common thing in neighborhoods where this happens. It's like parents just completely restructure how they think about safety. Oh yeah, because it's so close to home and you think like, if them, why not my kid? You know, like it's like, that could happen any day to anybody.

Starting point is 01:24:25 Yeah, I feel like that really brings it home. And I mean, growing up, like, Celine and I would wander all day. Like, by the time we were eight, and she was six, we would wander everywhere. We would wander into the inner city of Cincinnati and sell Girl Scout cookies on doorsteps. Like, we were just everywhere.

Starting point is 01:24:43 And there was no trackers or anything. And looking back, I'm like, I everywhere and there was no trackers or anything. And looking back, I'm like, I mean, it was fine. Nothing really happened, but look, I'm like, I couldn't do that nowadays. I'm way too paranoid nowadays. I literally, even with the advent of like, find my friends, I don't know how my mom survived me like going to college.

Starting point is 01:25:02 Even just like the small things, regardless of how safe an area is, the fact that we've gotten so good at being able to find people whenever we needed them. Not only was there no GPS, but texting wasn't even what it is today. Calling wasn't even what it was today. I'm just like, man, I can't imagine just hoping everything's going well. Just letting them out, letting them go, yeah. And I feel like- If I don't hear something, I guess it's okay. It's funny, I just think about it.

Starting point is 01:25:29 I'm like, my mom was pregnant. She was like working full-time, getting her degree. Like, of course she couldn't just accompany us everywhere, right? And she's a single mom. So it was like, we would just go play and she would just let us. And it was fun and awesome.

Starting point is 01:25:42 And like, we got so much independence. We got to explore, we got to, but you know, it's funny now I'm like, I don't think I could do that. Like for my own anxiety, I don't think I could do it, but we'll see. I mean, Liam is not big enough yet anyway, but I have a feeling I'm gonna be a lot more. I feel like the second you see her as a six year old,

Starting point is 01:26:00 you're gonna be like, I would never. Yeah, she's so little. Who's letting her wander around the neighborhood knocking on... That was other thing. We would knock on strangers' doors and do dumb sh*t, like pretend it was... We would do this thing where we would pretend we thought it was Halloween.

Starting point is 01:26:14 This is so embarrassing. And we would go up and knock on a door and be like trick or treat. And they'd go like, it's October, or like it's like September. And we'd go, what? We thought it was Halloween. Like we literally would play this game and people would be like, okay, what do you want? We thought it was Halloween. Like we literally would play this game

Starting point is 01:26:26 and people would be like, okay, what do you want? We'd be like, candy. Somebody gave us a can of peaches. Somebody gave us an old watch that was broken. We collected all sorts of random sh*t doing this activity. It's actually, it's just trick or trick. It's just- Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. So that's actually a good point.

Starting point is 01:26:42 We were just tricking around. Anyway, so we got to wander everywhere, but I think I would be a little bit different about it nowadays. So anyway, they did not consider foul play at this point yet, but the kids who lived in the neighborhood later remembered that this shifted how the whole neighborhood, probably the whole town, you know, let their kids out and about. So the hours ticked by, there was no sign of Daniel David or Kenneth Jr. And like Betty, the police had not once considered an abduction or foul play.

Starting point is 01:27:21 Their working assumption was that the boys were lost or that they had run away. And Betty and Kenneth just couldn't entertain the runaway theory for even a second. Even if the two youngest were following their older brother's lead, like why would an eight-year-old run away with his two younger brothers from like a perfectly safe and healthy and happy home? And none of the other kids had had any of this type of behavior before. They'd gone to the park so many times. It just to the parents didn't feel right. So a couple days after the disappearance a woman named Margaret Goodwill made a

Starting point is 01:27:53 report that she had seen three young boys sitting on a curb the day the Klein brothers vanished and she said she believed one of the boys was crying. So police brought a dog to this spot and the dog led them on two trails. One trail passed the police station and ended not far from the client's house and the other ended near the banks of the Mississippi River near the Lowry Avenue Bridge. The brothers and other neighborhood children sometimes played at the bridge in summer weather but they would not be allowed up there without Gordon, their older brother. Gordon and his parents didn't think that the boys would have gone

Starting point is 01:28:29 on their own without permission, especially in the winter when this was usually like a summer spot. But maybe they got kind of bold and wanted to climb up there without their older brother and like test their independence, you know? And so maybe that's what had happened. But the Kleins pretty quickly began to question these scent trails that the dog had followed. The first issue being that there was no confirmation that the children Margaret Goodwill had seen were the Kleins brothers anyway. So that's the scent that the dog was using to track. And like, who knows, these three boys could have been any other three boys. So it's not even confirmed that it was them to begin with. I know it's

Starting point is 01:29:09 just like feels like a constant roundabout like back to square one. Yeah especially because so many kids are playing in that park. Yes that too. So many kids and based on her description of these kids it really could have been any kids in the neighborhood any three kids just like bundled up. Sure. You know she couldn't like see that many specific features. And then the next issue was the route itself because the dog led police on a long meandering journey that totally totaled nearly seven miles. And it was hard to imagine a four year old walking seven miles in a snow suit for any

Starting point is 01:29:40 reason. Like it just didn't quite add up. The third issue is that the dog had found two scent trails which went totally different places. So it's like, well, which one is it? You know? Like did they part ways? Like did they split up? Right. Good point. Could they have split up? Which one of these could be trusted? Could any of them be trusted? Was it even the three boys, the Klein brothers that this woman had

Starting point is 01:30:02 seen? So it was all just kind of a lot of question marks. And finally, 62 hours after the disappearance, a railroad worker found the first real physical clue, which were two children's knit winter caps that were laying at the banks of the Mississippi River on top of an ice patch. Oh, oh, sh*t. Yes. And unfortunately, Kenneth confirmed they were his son's hats. But yes, but they didn't, something didn't feel right because he thought it almost seemed

Starting point is 01:30:32 as though they had both been placed there next to each other on this ice bank by the river. And so he felt a little odd, like, it didn't look like they'd just been tossed off, like a little boy would do. It seemed like somebody had taken them and carefully placed them there. But regardless, police immediately had developed this new theory that the boys went to play in the river, fell in and drowned.

Starting point is 01:30:54 So what they did next is they utilized the dams to lower the water level along that stretch of the river so they could conduct an aerial search. And the pilots reported excellent vision that day because a lot of the Mississippi River is very wide, deep, incredibly murky, but this area was actually crystal clear. And when they lowered the water level,

Starting point is 01:31:14 you could basically search the whole thing from the air and see everything. Oh, wow. Yeah, so I feel like that never happens with these stories. No, no. So the pilot said they could see everything from toilet seats to sunken tires all the way at the bottom of the river.

Starting point is 01:31:27 Like they could see crystal clear. Two of the boys had been wearing bright red, like I mentioned, which is an ideal color when you're searching for someone in the water. But the pilots did a thorough search of this whole area and found absolutely nothing. No clothing of the boys, no accessories, no more hats, nothing. No clothing of the boys, no accessories, no more hats, nothing. No red jacket. And then was it like cold, like there was snow?

Starting point is 01:31:51 Could they get like footsteps anywhere? I don't know that there was snow. There was an ice patch where the hats were found. I don't think, I don't think it- Like from a previous snow maybe. I don't think there would have been footprints. Okay. As far as- Because maybe they like were just looking for, from a previous snow maybe. I don't think there would have been footprints. Okay. As far as I can.

Starting point is 01:32:05 Because maybe they were just looking for, because my... Yeah, what are your thoughts? Maybe they were looking at the water and then they decided to leave but they just forgot their hats. It didn't occur to them to put them back on. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:32:21 But also, aren't you so cold that you would want to take, you would never even want to take your hat off. But maybe if you walked four or seven miles or whatever, you were overheated. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting because the trail that the dog followed led to the bank, the river bank.

Starting point is 01:32:39 And it happened to like what, but what a coincidence that the dog would pick up a scent and coincidentally find two of your kids hats. No, so somebody else found the hats. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's like either I don't even know which riverbank it was. It could have been a totally different riverbank. Do you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:33:00 Like maybe. But also like I feel like that's maybe I'm overthinking it, but it feels a little... Like, so someone just called the police and said, I found two random hats, or they were on a search and found the two hats? Um, so, let me reread the bullet. Let's see. Yeah. So I say it properly. So, it was 62 hours

Starting point is 01:33:19 after the disappearance, a railroad worker, uh, found two children's knit winter hats at the bank of the Mississippi River on top of an ice patch. I feel like if I saw two hats, there have been so many times I'm like walking in a park and like, oh, oh, random gloves. Right, but like this is a town where they knew this was going on, right?

Starting point is 01:33:33 So like people who lived in town were like highly aware of like anything that might be out of place. And because this was such big news across the entire Midwest, like this was a big story. So everybody probably would have known that this was something worth reporting. You know what I mean? Sure. And he didn't touch it. That's why, like when the dad said, Oh, it looked like they were placed there. It's because the railroad worker knew to call the police before grabbing them, you know, and, and was able to show how they had been placed there.

Starting point is 01:34:07 Yeah, so the pilots are looking in this water, they see absolutely nothing except for the usual just kind of like trash and other things, but no sign of any three of the boys. And think about it too, there's three boys, like you'd think if even one of them fell in or something happened, like there would at least be a shoe or, you'd think if even one of them fell in or something happened, like, there would at least be a shoe or, you know, something kind of laid around, but I guess the hats were the only thing that they found. So investigators continued to search dams, bridges, and undercut banks, like anywhere maybe their bodies could have gotten stuck if they had fallen in the river and were swept

Starting point is 01:34:43 away. And as I've kind of already alluded to, and most fallen in the river and were swept away. As I've already alluded to, and most people in the US, or at least who've lived in the Midwest know, the Mississippi River is humongous. It spills out over a thousand miles south of the Gulf of Mexico, at the Gulf of Mexico. It's very possible that somebody could get swept downstream and then perhaps get caught on some debris and never, you know, just end up in a very random spot down the river and never surface again. But it was also unlikely that this would happen to three boys that disappeared at the same

Starting point is 01:35:17 time. It's almost like you'd think a sign of one of them would be discovered eventually on this river, but on a riverbank somewhere along the Mississippi. I feel like even there should be like in the trees like the twigs caught like some of the fleece of their hat or something. Exactly, anything caught by like a branch or a root or just like a bridge or like underneath a bridge where it's shallower you know but they just there's nothing they trace the whole river anywhere they could have gotten stuck and found nothing. And as they waited, no reports of children's remains

Starting point is 01:35:50 or any other signs of the kids were discovered along the river. And despite no concrete evidence that the boys drowned, the police decided to rule the deaths accidental and close the case. And this was just five days after they disappeared. So yeah, so very fast, open and shut, even though they didn't solve it.

Starting point is 01:36:10 The clients couldn't believe it. They were like, we do not think our kids went to the river that day. They didn't believe that the dog's track was reliable, the one to the banks, and they just couldn't accept that the police were like, oh, well, they drowned, case closed. And so it was one of Betty's neighbors

Starting point is 01:36:26 who actually mentioned to Betty, which what a f*cker, this neighbor, first of all, said, oh, they were probably abducted. Oh, thanks, Beth. First of all, thanks. Thanks, girl. Thanks, thanks. Thanks, babe.

Starting point is 01:36:38 So now Betty's like, oh sh*t, like I had never thought that before. And so from that moment on, I mean, it's almost a good thing because it was not a good thing, but you know, it at least got them thinking. It was helpful in the moment of like, oh, this is another possibility. And so she and Kenneth, Betty and Kenneth were suddenly convinced, oh wait, we think somebody took our sons. That's the only explanation to us that makes sense.

Starting point is 01:37:03 And so in the days after the case closed, they are just sitting there wishing they could figure out a way to do something when a postcard arrives in the mail. Oh no. The postcard reads, dear Mr. and Mrs. Klein, I suppose you are worrying about your three children who disappeared Saturday.

Starting point is 01:37:21 Don't worry, they will be all right if you raise $15,000 by Tuesday, November 20th. If you don't raise the money by November 20th, we will have to dispose of your three children. If you want your three children, drive out on Highway 169 at 11 p.m., 10 miles north of Princeton, Minnesota. You will then see a blue Ford by the roadside. Inside will be your three children. If you have the $15,000 with you, they will be yours. Don't try any tricks." So somehow the FBI got one to this or caught one to this and they got involved. Yeah. So on the 20th of November, several FBI agents trailed Kenneth

Starting point is 01:37:59 as he went to the rendezvous point designated on the postcard, and nobody was there. And when the FBI searched the area, they could not find a single person who may have been suspicious in this area. How? So potentially a hoax. Which is- Oh, that's so f*cked up. So f*cked up, yes.

Starting point is 01:38:22 Or they got spooked, who knows? But for whatever reason, they were not there. Strangely though, when looking back at the case reports, it seems as though the Minneapolis police were not involved and they didn't even know about the ransom letter. It's like the FBI came in and then nobody updated the police. So they never reopened the case because they never really caught wind of it. And so the case remained closed as an accidental drowning. But now, of course, the clients not only have like their nosy neighbor making comments and they also received this postcard and the FBI got involved.

Starting point is 01:38:58 So now they're definitely convinced that their boys had been abducted and they're not even convinced the boys are dead. So instead Betty starts thinking, well, maybe this is an illegal adoption ring. Maybe they were abducted and sold into some kind of adoption situation, human slavery thing, who knows. They thought perhaps like another family

Starting point is 01:39:21 had split the boys up and maybe that was why they were hard to find, because it wasn't three of them together, maybe they were separated. And poor Gordon, who was nine, had to tell himself that maybe his brothers were being raised in a happy home somewhere. And that was like the only way he could like assuage

Starting point is 01:39:39 his own guilt, you know? You know, as soon as you said, oh, well he wanted to sharpen his knife, so he wasn't gonna go with them that day. I was like, I can just smell the survivor's guilt. You feel it, it's terrible. He thought maybe they ended up in a home with more wealth and as he put it, quote,

Starting point is 01:39:54 more opportunities than they had with their parents. That was like his only hope of a silver lining. He spent his childhood convinced that one day they would find their way back and just walk in the door and the family would be whole again, which is so sad. You think at least one of them has to know their address, so at some point they're gonna grow up and check out the address.

Starting point is 01:40:14 Like an eight-year-old would know his parents' names. Yeah, if they're abducted down the block, they will eventually return, like you eventually return. You'd think so. Like your thought is they'll... Oof. Yeah. Oh my God, poor Gordon. I know, it's really sad.

Starting point is 01:40:30 He was obviously very, very affected by the loss. Betty and Kenneth ultimately decided to move to a town called Monticello, which was just an hour, just under an hour northwest of Minneapolis to try and give Gordon a fresh start. But this was also like an incredibly gut wrenching decision for them because they would- Yeah, cause what if- They come back. What if the kids come back?

Starting point is 01:40:52 Yes. And so they essentially asked the family that lived there to please like keep us updated. If anybody stops by any weird mail, anything suspicious, anything even remotely like intriguing, please let us know. And they had roots and family connections in their new town Monticello. So they were hoping that maybe their sons could find them there as well because a lot of their extended family lived there. So maybe like if they were in

Starting point is 01:41:19 this area, they at least knew that this was where they had family. But unfortunately, years went by, and even though the search was fruitless, it essentially consumed Betty and Kenneth's lives for the rest of their lives. Yeah. Every year on November 10th, they took out ads and papers searching for leads. They did this for decades, every single year on November 10th. And every year, calls came in about the boys

Starting point is 01:41:44 from all over the country. Nothing really led to any real outcomes. They sought help from private investigators, elected officials, psychics. Anytime they thought there was even a slight chance that a lead could be legitimate, they followed it. It's just so sad to see how this just unraveled, you know, a whole happy happy family because they spent decades

Starting point is 01:42:08 with their other children because in the meantime, they had their son named Donald who was seven months in gestation when the older boys went missing. So when Donald was born, he never actually got to meet his three older brothers. He only knew... And I can't imagine being parents to a newborn who needs a lot of your time and energy and but to still be racked with this whole other situation that like you can't get in. I'm sure there were times where like they felt like they couldn't give both their energy the right way.

Starting point is 01:42:42 And then the thing to Gordon, like he's older, so he's probably more self-sufficient, especially if he's responsible. And so he probably just got kind of pushed to the wayside in a way, you know? It's like, there's so much going on, he probably was like, oh, focus on the baby and on finding my brothers. And he kind of-

Starting point is 01:43:01 Or imagine the responsibility complex of like, I need to take care of this brother even better because the last one's... Right? Like you'd be so nervous about it. I mean... The nine-year-old guilt. Yeah, imagine like not being able to bond with your new brother because you're like,

Starting point is 01:43:14 well, I was close to the others and they left. And I let them down or whatever. I don't want to get close to this one. Yeah. So the youngest brother, Donald said in an interview that one of his parents was always at home when he was growing up, in case one of his brothers that he never met showed up.

Starting point is 01:43:31 The family never ever, throughout his entire life, went anywhere together as like the complete unit, because somebody always stayed behind. And unlike his brothers who learned to fish with their dad, Donald learned to fish from his mom and do a lot of other things with his mom so that his dad could continue the search out in the woods and on foot.

Starting point is 01:43:54 In 2013, two sheriffs from another jurisdiction started looking into the case and they were not officially able to reopen it, only the Minneapolis police could do that, but they were allowed to use law enforcement resources to investigate it, only the Minneapolis police could do that, but they were allowed to use law enforcement resources to investigate it on their own time as sort of like a research project on the side. And unfortunately they noticed that much of the original information about the case was lost. For

Starting point is 01:44:17 example, boxes containing evidence like the hats found at the river went missing at some point in the decades afterwards. So it's just gone. Nobody knows where it is. Geez. So you can't even do any like new testing on it. And that's so sad because I feel like that happens a lot when things just get kind of shoved into closets and then or dusty storage rooms. And then when there's a move, they get left behind or thrown away. In the shuffle. Yeah, in the shuffle. They did, however, get access to some files from a retired police sergeant, including interviews and notes from the original case.

Starting point is 01:44:50 And so they were able to actually put together a profile of several suspects, even though these suspects were now deceased. One suspect was the client's neighbor when the boys went missing. And several other neighbors reported behavior at that time from that neighbor that they found odd. For example, one day just after the brothers disappeared,

Starting point is 01:45:08 the man's neighbor noticed him unloading many sacks of concrete from his truck. And when asked, he said he was laying a new concrete floor in his dirt basem*nt. Nope. Nope. Don't like that. One of his friends was scheduled to help him pour the cement, but he cancelled and said

Starting point is 01:45:26 he'd rather do it himself, and he stayed up all night pouring the concrete over the dirt floor on his own. Nope. The next day, his friend's wife went to his house and suggested he join the neighborhood search party to find the Klein boys. He refused and told her they aren't worth looking for. Oh! Hello?

Starting point is 01:45:47 He couldn't even fake it? This was a punch in the nose. People in the neighborhood wondered if he had perhaps killed the boys and buried him in the basem*nt. He'd also at that time- That's my first thought. I know, right?

Starting point is 01:45:59 He also at that time replaced the wooden panels in the bed of his pickup truck, despite the wood being, having been new and in great condition. It didn't seem like it needed replacing, but he replaced it anyway, according to witnesses. But again, this is all conjecture and like, who knows if neighbors are just like pointing fingers, who knows? Because I probably know like it may.

Starting point is 01:46:21 Oh, sorry. No, no, no. Go ahead. Sorry. I was gonna say maybe that... I'm just trying to think of every scenario, but I'm like, what if the kids weren't abducted? But what if that guy like hit them with his car and like... and got freaked out that like he killed them by accident and just like took them? Right. And didn't want to get...

Starting point is 01:46:42 Yeah. Didn't want to get caught. I mean, I've heard of that kind of thing happening where it was a freak accident, and then the person's just trying to cover it up. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I'm thinking like if he had to replace the wood in there and everything,

Starting point is 01:46:56 maybe like there was blood he wasn't expecting to get in that area or... But then wouldn't you find blood on the concrete? Of like, if something happened? I don't know. I'm overthinking it, but... Well, he would have buried them in the basem*nt and blood on the concrete of like, if something happened, I don't know, I'm overthinking it. But- Well, he would have buried them in the basem*nt and then laid the concrete.

Starting point is 01:47:09 Cause his- No, I'm saying, I'm saying on the road wherever he hit them. Oh, on the road, oh, I see. I don't know. It's also like a, anyway, my thought is like, maybe he was just like so ashamed and couldn't even like think about, Mm-hmm. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:47:25 Yeah, it's possible. It could not be him. It's possible. It could not be him. It could be him. Yeah, it's just too many question marks. Ten years later, a woman who had once lived in the neighborhood reported that she actually believed that same man that we were just discussing had once molested her young daughter.

Starting point is 01:47:42 Oh. So, she had accused him of that. But hearsay was not enough to reopen the case, and he died in 1975 anyway. Then there was another suspect, a man who used to work at Fairview Park, and the boys sometimes spent time with this man at the park, and he'd even take them to a nearby hill

Starting point is 01:48:00 to go sledding in the winter. And shortly after the boys disappeared, he abruptly moved away to Chicago. And while living in Chicago, he ended up as a suspect in another investigation, the infamous Peterson-Schussler murder case involving the murders of three young boys in 1955. See, isn't it wild, though?

Starting point is 01:48:21 Because you feel like the first one is like an obvious yes, and then you hear another one you're like, well, no, it's this one. And then you could probably hear another one where it's like, sh*t, it's definitely that guy. It like really makes you think like, man. They were all ding ding dings on my mind. I know. And it could be none of them.

Starting point is 01:48:40 I know it could be could be a freak accident and they fell in the river but they could have really just gotten lost and never found their way home. Yeah. I don't know. It's like this could have just been all a coincidence but it's very strange the parallel of him being a suspect in this three young boys murder case in a totally different town. But no strong evidence ever linked him to the Klein boys disappearance and he in 1962, so there's no following up on that. And then this ransom note that the clients received, like, this is still kind of a wild card,

Starting point is 01:49:09 because it could have been a hoax, like, the most f*cked up hoax ever. It could be just someone trying to profit from the tragedy as, like, a hoax to get money, but the FBI, for whatever reason, found it believable enough to treat it as legitimate. But then, you know, why didn't the person show up? So it's, it feels like another twisty dead end that we don't really have answers for.

Starting point is 01:49:33 So until their deaths, Betty and Kenneth remain certain that their sons were still alive and that they would one day find their way home. When Gordon, the older brother, was 75 years old, he did an interview saying he would never get over the loss, but he too believed his brothers were abducted and sold, not drowned or murdered. So the sheriffs investigating the case on their own time collected DNA from Betty before her death, along with the DNA of her other surviving family members, just in case. just in case. And although the case is still closed, they did list the boys in databases as missing persons to make the information and access to the DNA and other resources accessible

Starting point is 01:50:10 for potential future investigations, or if they find a John Doe anywhere. As of today, the case is still considered orphaned or closed. The sheriffs don't have the jurisdiction to open it and the Minneapolis Police Department doesn't feel it have the jurisdiction to open it and the Minneapolis Police Department doesn't feel it has the cause to open it. So it's just kind of there with no oversight really. Unless very new strong evidence comes to light, the case will likely remain closed.

Starting point is 01:50:36 So we can only hope. Wow. But in 2019, an author named Jack Elhi published his book on the case called The Lost Brothers, which then became a six episode podcast called Long Lost. And he actually first began speaking to the Kleins in the 1990s. And for decades, the case and the Kleins endless hope compelled him to like keep telling their story. And he actually worked with them side by side throughout the rest of their lives to tell their story. And he shared their hope as well that publicizing the case to a wider audience now with this book, with a TV series, with a podcast series

Starting point is 01:51:12 would maybe jog somebody's memory or let somebody out there know that they might have a missing piece to this puzzle. Yeah, well, and today, even the youngest boy missing would be in his 70s, right? Yep, yep, yep. Did you already say that? No, I did not. He'd be, I think if they said 70, yeah, in his early 70s. Yeah, so we don't even know if they're alive anymore,

Starting point is 01:51:39 if they survived this whole time. Yeah, so that's the story. It's really, really a f*cking bummer, but you know, that's what I do. Yeah. Good job. Yeah, thanks. Good job bumming me out.

Starting point is 01:51:53 You're welcome. Man. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I usually have a good guess at this point, but I got nothing. So thank you for your storytelling, Christine. Yes, and I feel like when it comes to the people getting lost in the wilderness, I feel out of my depth

Starting point is 01:52:09 because I'm like, I don't know, nature's scary and wild, and I don't know what could have happened. I don't know what's reasonable. Like, I don't feel like it's my place to be like, they didn't drown because this. Like, I don't know anything about Minnesota. I certainly wouldn't survive in nature.

Starting point is 01:52:23 Right, right. Even with the best source resources, I wouldn't be able to do it. So I feel like for them to be three little children, no way. Terrible. But maybe they survived and they just got adopted by somebody. And I just watched the Law and Order episode

Starting point is 01:52:41 where someone got adopted and they found out later that they had been kidnapped. Oh yeah. But even the people who adopted them were just like, kind of just convinced them over time. So I don't, it could really be anything. I know, I know. I hope that someday there's, I always say this, but I hope someday there's just some

Starting point is 01:53:01 unexpected advance in technology or research that, like DNA evidence for example, something like groundbreaking that maybe can give answers. Time travel. I mean, yeah. I mean, think of the crime department in time travel, in the time travel industry. We wouldn't even need detectives anymore. We would be like, okay, let's just go back to the state. Time detectives, time crime detectives.

Starting point is 01:53:29 I swear to God, if that were a job, I would quit this podcast today and become a crime time, a crime traveler. You and me both. And just like that, that's my dream job. Wow, we would be so good together if we were partners. Think of the power, think of- Partners in time. Holy sh*t.

Starting point is 01:53:54 Crime travelers, partners in time. Literally, if we don't get shirts that say that, I will cry. I am writing the book. TM, TM, I've never really meant it before. T the f*ck M. If you have a cricket machine right in front of you and you don't make me a shirt for my birthday in a month

Starting point is 01:54:10 that says, partners in time. Oh, I'm on it, baby. Crime traveler. I mean, the way that I need that so badly. I don't think it's even a shirt. I mean, it will be a shirt, but I think it's bigger than a shirt. It's a novella.

Starting point is 01:54:23 It's a trilogy. It's a novella. It's a it's a Wow It's it's another horrible Horror comedy soap opera like that one. I mentioned earlier. No, it's not. Oh Except it's good. It's a novella. I like the first option better. Oh Okay, well, I hope that was the worst part of your day telling that story What what do you have to look forward to for the rest of your day seeing your dad? Well, I'm finally going to drink this THC seltzer while we do our after hours because I have a topic for it already.

Starting point is 01:54:53 Oh, good. Can I tell what it is here so that in case people want to know? So the topic I'm going to discuss on the after hours today is places to look in old homes for hidden treasures or hidden items and documents that families may have hidden away. Okay, I love that you said that because I was going to end on the fact that I just went looking through an old part of my closet

Starting point is 01:55:14 and found a sh*tload of gift cards. So... Imagine like in 200 years, it's like look for under floorboards and then people find like an IHOP gift card and they're like, this is treasure. Well, that's how I got my drink today. find like an IHOP gift card, and they're like, this is treasure. That's how I got my drink today.

Starting point is 01:55:27 So I've been tearing through these gift cards this week. Where were they in your closet? I had them in a little pouch that I think, I know myself well enough to know that the pouch was supposed to go somewhere else, but it just got thrown in the wrong box. Oh, so it wasn't hidden in the walls or anything? No, but I can dream. Okay, so I'm gonna tell people about places in the wrong box. Oh, so it wasn't like hidden in the walls or anything? No. Why was I thinking that?

Starting point is 01:55:45 I can dream. I can dream. Okay, so I'm going to tell people about like places in the house like to look like under, you know, in the actual infrastructure of the house. So we will do that in the after hours and we'll see you there. What do we call it again now? After hours? Last call or something?

Starting point is 01:56:01 I don't know. sh*t. I had such a good name for it, but Eva wasn't around. So then I just't know sh*t. I had such a good name for it, but Eva wasn't around so then I just Didn't commit it's something creepy come check us out. It's at patreon.com Something what is it and no tell me what it is first. I don't know ATWD podcast. We're terrible at promoing this So after dark is our recalling it after dark, after dark? Is that what we're calling it? After dark. Is that it? Is that what Eva said?

Starting point is 01:56:29 Or did you just say it? That's what Eva said. I have no idea what it's called. Oh, then yeah, that's probably right. If Eva said it, I'd trust it. Okay, cool. See you there. And? That's... Why... We...

Starting point is 01:56:41 Drink.