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norm I'm always home. I'm uncool. Posts: 31,146
September 2010 edited September 2010 in Other Music
Is Video Killing the Concert Vibe?
Lighters held aloft at rock shows have given way to camera phones. Meet the backlash.
In the audience at a recent Natalie Merchant concert at an 880-seat theater in Los Angeles, Adam Miles couldn't focus. The man to his left was holding up his cell phone, shooting video. "Please," Mr. Miles asked his neighbor, "turn it off." A few songs later, the phone lit up again, and the San Diego harbor police officer got more commanding: "Hey, dude. You're going to have to put that away. You're ruining the show for me."
Mr. Miles wasn't the only one distracted by the gadgetry. In the second half of the concert, Ms. Merchant paused to call out a man near the front who'd been brandishing his phone throughout. "I'm right here," she said with icy sarcasm. "This is live. This is where the show is." Then she told the audience to just get it over with, briefly striking poses as hundreds of devices clicked away.
At most concerts these days, when the houselights go down, the tiny glowing screens go up. As more fans mark the moments with smartphones, cameras and pocket-sized video recorders, a new kind of digital divide is emerging. Music lovers who try to document and share the essence of concerts are squaring off against those who think that just defeats the purpose. The debate is drawing participants from both sides of the stage.
Some bands, including the venerated rock groups Wilco and the Black Crowes, are asking their fans to go cold turkey on taking videos and photos at concerts. In movie houses, such edicts are meant to fight piracy and copyright infringement. In the music industry, where that ship has already sailed, these new policies are more about preserving the tribal atmosphere of a concert.
Plugged-in concertgoers are seizing new ways to participate in the show beyond simply clapping, hollering and maybe buying a T-shirt. For some, it's enough to fill hard drives with souvenir moments; others have found audiences of their own online, especially among passionate fans whose hometowns rarely show up on tour itineraries.
Chris Robinson, 44-year-old singer for the Black Crowes, isn't on board. "As a band we've been trying to string together these moments, the kind of moments I've had as a music fan that have blown my mind. That's not happening when you're texting or checking your f—ing fantasy league stats," he says. "I personally think you should be too high to operate a machine at our concerts." 
When the Black Crowes decided to prohibit pictures and videos for its current tour, the band took some flak. "How incredibly lame," wrote one of many Facebook users who speculated that the group was trying to protect its ability to profit from professionally shot photos and videos.
And indeed, artists don't want to alienate the very fans who pay to see them, and often proselytize on their behalf. In an industry where album sales continue to decay, social media is the hoped-for lifeline. Acts are all too aware of how their careers can be buoyed or sunk by a critical mass of exclamation-pointed Facebook postings and Twitter links to raw footage.
"I don't think buying a concert ticket gives you the right to film. That doesn't work on Broadway or at the movies."
While there are still artists who cry piracy, many others have either thrown up their hands or pounced on the free promotion these videos provide. They range from young acts like Justin Bieber and Owl City, who were launched almost exclusively via online buzz, to the famously open-source group Radiohead. Earlier this month, fans released a free two-hour, high-definition video recording of a 2009 Radiohead concert in Prague, edited together from footage shot that night by some 60 audience members with Flip cams. The band joined the project by providing its own master recordings of the concert for the soundtrack.
Artist manager Ian Montone, whose charges include the White Stripes and Vampire Weekend, says his bands aren't crazy about playing to a wall of cameras. "Having the first 20 rows of an audience standing motionless and acting as ersatz cameramen can be obnoxious to the artist, other fans, and takes away from the concert experience," says Mr. Montone.
But his acts don't want to play bad cop. "Within the last year and a half it became such a losing battle," he says. "You're not going to kick out the entire audience."
When fan footage goes online, his reaction involves quality control more than copyright. He often asks the creators of shaky, murky-sounding clips to take them down, and sometimes compliments the owners of great-looking footage—while reserving the band's right to make use of it in the future.
Los Angeles music fan Tony Kim has uploaded more than 300 homemade concert videos to his YouTube channel, showcasing everyone from Arcade Fire to the Ting Tings. None of these unauthorized clips have ever been removed by YouTube, he says. Yet he recently noticed advertisem*nts popping up next to some of them, including footage of indie rockers Metric. Since 2007, YouTube has provided a program that lets copyright owners monitor such fan-made music videos, allowing a record label, for instance, to drop in ads or "click to buy" links. Of course, they can also choose to remove the videos, or just look the other way.
Jeff Tweedy appreciates his tech-savvy fans. After all, they've made his band Wilco a going concern for more than 15 years. Like the Black Crowes, Wilco allows fans to make audio recordings at concerts and trade them online, for free. But video cameras, especially right up front, bother him. He says there's something more at stake than just distracting the lead singer (which is "just rude"). "I think you're surrendering your own memory to a very imperfect medium," he says. "Our memories are imperfect to begin with but that's what's beautiful about it."
Last winter, Mr. Tweedy took his family to see the illusionist Criss Angel. At the Las Vegas performance, recording devices of every kind were prohibited, enforced with a pat-down of audience members filing in. Inspired, Mr. Tweedy encouraged his band to institute its own no-cameras policy (minus the frisking).
"My sense of indignation was really roused quite a few nights," he says. "Once there was an established set of rules, I could stop talking about it during the shows."
The band posts signs inside venues and delivers an announcement over the public address system before show time. A robotic pre-recorded voice informs the audience that Wilco welcomes audio recording, singing along, shouting requests between songs and "general merriment." But "to avoid ending your evening with Wilco prematurely," it says, keep your cameraphone stowed. The venue's security guards take over from there, usually targeting transgressors with a flashlight beam to the face.
Mr. Tweedy says so far most crowds are policing themselves, and that it's paying off: "I honestly feel the crowd's engagement with the show. There's a more audible kind of reaction to different musical moments, a kind of intangible energy."
Photo and video restrictions persist in the language of many artists' tour contracts, but the ubiquity of camera phones have rendered them moot. Concert venues must be ready for everything. "It's like playing Whac-A-Mole," says Ed Stack, who manages the 9:30 Club in Washington. "Holdout artists who are hell-bent on controlling their image are becoming a thing of the past," he says. His security team will go into enforcement mode if the band requests it, with guards often sidling up to the offending ticket holder. "You get real close up to their ear and say, 'I don't want to have to confiscate that.'"
Generation gaps are a given in music culture, but age seems to have little bearing on the urge to gather gigabytes of concert footage. At a recent sold-out concert by the popular avant-garde rock act Dirty Projectors, very few of the 3,000 young fans were holding LCD screens aloft. Courtney Weisman, 22 years old, said she gets annoyed when she catches herself staring at her neighbor's mise en scene. Her own iPhone mostly stays in her pocket.
By contrast, Todd Morason, a 41-year-old eye surgeon from Syracuse, N.Y., says his high-definition Canon video camera has transformed his relationship with live music. He used to attend only a few concerts annually. He's been to more than 20 in the last year, spurred on by the popularity of his live clips of rock bands like Muse and Steely Dan, which he posts on YouTube. His greatest hit: a song by the young pop-punk band Paramore that he captured last year at the Electric Factory club in Philadelphia. Shot from the balcony, the nearly five-minute clip has pulled in more than 350,000 views.
With his online audience in mind, Dr. Morason has sought out bands he doesn't care for personally, including the prog rock group Coheed and Cambria. To keep his video quality high, he doesn't dance or sing along with the crowd, and he attends most shows alone. With his eyes trained on his camera screen, he's been walloped by crowd surfers. And sometimes the 5-foot-7 physician struggles to get a clear shot. Standing in a dense crowd at an Aerosmith concert, his fingers went numb from holding the camera at arm's length during a 10-minute jam. He recalls thinking, "I can't miss 'Dream On.' It's the anthem. I can circulate blood to my fingers later."
Some artists say the ever-present lens is forcing them to play it safer on stage, knowing that a sloppy set in front of a few hundred people can quickly ripple out to thousands of YouTube critics. Canadian indie rockers Broken Social Scene had test-driven new songs in concert for years, working out kinks on the fly. Now they only debut new material after it's been thoroughly rehearsed, largely for fear that a flubbed vocal or uneven guitar solo will draw fire online.
"We're grateful that people care enough to pay attention, but we want to be at our best," says front man Kevin Drew. He says phones and cameras are too important to the fan experience to ban them, but at a a show in Dallas last year, he leaned out and grabbed a camera from a particularly determined woman in the front row. (He says it was returned when the show was over.) Like many young people who grew up going to punk-rock shows, he was schooled in the unwritten etiquette of the mosh pit, including the importance of hoisting people up when they hit the floor. Cameras are different: "There don't seem to be any rules and people think they can do whatever they want."
Fans can now beam a live video feed from the sixth row, using just an app, a robust cellular connection and a free account on a site such as Justin.tv, Livestream or Ustream. These companies say such activity is still nascent, but catching on as technology improves. After Justin.tv released new apps for iPhones and Androids this month, the number of users broadcasting from their phones (as opposed to desktop webcams) surged to more than 30%. In music, fans of the jam-band Phish were early adopters. Since the group reunited last year, many of its shows have been watchable online, thanks to a network of fans who capture the action live for outlets including Hoodstream and Phishtube. Phish says it's aware of the practice, but didn't want to comment on it.
Live video companies are wary that unauthorized fan streams could rankle the very music acts the sites are partnering with for official concerts feeds. For now, however, a live cellphone link from the cheap seats is hardly capable of Scorsese-style concert footage.
"If you look at cellphone streaming," says Livestream co-founder and chief executive Max Haot, "between the camera quality, battery life and network issues, it's usually not a great experience."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... l?mod=e2fb
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BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
September 2010
I can only speak for myself, YouTube is what brought me to Pearl Jam, i gave up on them years ago, then when YouTube started i would spend Friday nights up late getting hi and drinking while watching Live Videos, a way to relax form the work week, i saw a few PJ concert vids from some of there Radio Hits ( even flow , alive, black) and then just found myself coming back to them more than any other band. Eventually i wanted to expand my PJ experiance and found the MSG DVD, i was hooked, right then and there. But it was the live concert video that did it.
I think if you rock live, you got nothing to worry about, but if you rock in a studio and kind of suck live, you got a lot to worry about now a days.
1 example: Blue October, love there Studio Stuff, saw a few live Vids, Good Lord do they suck.
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Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
September 2010
I can't stand it when the guy next to me insists on viewing the show through his phone, cam, etc. It is definitely a distraction. Whatever happened to living the moment through the music? The gadgets take away the thrill.
And the people who insist on being on the rail, yet are bored enough to rather text the whole time? I really can't stand that. If you're that bored, leave. I'd gladly take your place at the rail.
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Heisenberg Los Pollos Hermanos Posts: 4,957
September 2010
Jeanwah wrote:
I can't stand it when the guy next to me insists on viewing the show through his phone, cam, etc. It is definitely a distraction. Whatever happened to living the moment through the music? The gadgets take away the thrill.
And the people who insist on being on the rail, yet are bored enough to rather text the whole time? I really can't stand that. If you're that bored, leave. I'd gladly take your place at the rail.
I totally agree. I had 8th row seats for The Black Crowes just last weekend. They guy in front of me (who looked like Kevin Federline just raided his giant father's wardrobe) sat in his seat and played on his phone the entire night. He didn't look at the stage once. Now I know it's his right to be there just like anyone else, but why are you there if you are so clearly disinterested? Look, I love to take pictures at shows and do so when I can but you have to be reasonable and respectful about it. Pick a song or 2, take a couple pics and be done with it. The people who sit there with their phone held high recording the entire thing are a huge distraction to not only the people around them but the performers onstage. Get your souvenier, be done with it, and enjoy the show.
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AD85517 Posts: 11
September 2010
Case. In. Point. The first 10 seconds show it all.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Metallica-concer ... fault.aspx
Wasn't there, but if I was even 6 rows back I wouldn't have seen jack. These guys put on a good show, surely you would want to see it all with your own two eyes rather than 45 seconds at a time and pixelated?
Confession: I have taken a few videos at a PJ show, but only bits of a song or two, or a particularly bitching Even Flow solo or RITFW segment. Just as a souvenir. I would rather wait for a professional DVD any day. (Hint hint, any word of a DVD of the Down Under shows from last year? Please? please?
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justam Posts: 21,402
September 2010
I have mixed feeling about this issue. :geek:
I would never distract myself with a camera or a text message at a concert.
HOWEVER, I enjoy the fruits of people who do use these gadgets at concerts. I watch other people's videos when I can't be at an event. I truly appreciate that they put them online!So, I can't really complain about it. BUT, you'll never see me with a device out. I can't even really remember the setlist because I'm not keeping track of it at the time. I'm just listening to the music. I have to look it up the next day to remember exactly what the order was.
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slightlystoned Posts: 228
September 2010
are you kidding me? Is it really that much of a distraction? It happens at every show now get used to it. As long as the person isnt hovering the phone in your face, you shouldnt be bitching. I personally dont do it because I like to enjoy the show that way, but to each his own.
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keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
September 2010
I think as long as they're not holding the camera up in front of me, it's alright. Having said that, this is what most people do, as most cameras have live view. THIS has become a problem IMO.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
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Get_Right Posts: 12,532
September 2010
I hate it and it can ruin the experience-blocked views bright lights etc......
put the f*cking phone down and enjoy the showOptions
Wolf At Bay Posts: 236
September 2010
Yeah, this article was awesome.
It really is distracting because those camera screens just draw your eye. Don't know why; its probably some sort of biological mechanism left over from when humans lived in the wild. But it's also distracting because I just can't help but be incensed by the idea that someone would squander being in the moment at a concert and just enjoying it for what it is. I don't remember every damn detail from every show, but that's the way it is supposed to be. A few hazy memories are a nice side benefit, and some times you get some moments that are just unforgettable. But the real importance of the show is just the time you spend in the room where the music is being performed. That is the time it is meant to be enjoyed. I love watching concert footage as much as anyone else, but I have no need for personal documentation. If there's no footage anywhere to be had of some amazing show I went to, oh well, doesn't matter, because I WAS THERE.
http://www.zazzle.com/wolfatthetreeline*
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Get_Right Posts: 12,532
September 2010
the other reason is that the posted vids often ruin the surprise element of certain shows
I can watch the entire "wall" show, and that spoils the surprise that you would experience at the show
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red mos Posts: 4,953
September 2010 edited September 2010
I've got mixed feelings on it.
I HATE this in really small GA areas when someone is blocking your view by trying to film bits and clips of the show. The guy next to me at Dead weather annoyed the hell out of me. Never been a problem in the seats.
On the contrary, I do enjoy going back and watching video from the shows on youtube; especially if the band does not allow recordings to be traded freely or sell soundboard copies of the shows on their website.
Chris Robinson called a guy a douchebag in Houston at the end of the show for recording bits/ snapping pics.
They sell their shows on their site so, I'm cool with no pics video policy.
Regardless, the audio and vid still show up anyway.
Post edited by red mos on
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dcfaithful Posts: 13,076
September 2010
Thank God for Chris Robinson.
I agree with him. I don't give a sh*t about a concert video on YouTube really, it does nothing for me. There is now way to recreate seeing an incredible show live, and personally...I like remembering a concert either by a quality bootleg...or just simply going back there mentally. If it was that incredible of a show, you should have no problem doing it.
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benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,018
September 2010
dcfaithful wrote:
Thank God for Chris Robinson.
I agree with him. I don't give a sh*t about a concert video on YouTube really, it does nothing for me. There is now way to recreate seeing an incredible show live, and personally...I like remembering a concert either by a quality bootleg...or just simply going back there mentally. If it was that incredible of a show, you should have no problem doing it.
I'm working on a DVD project for a band we all know and love, and would not be able to do it without fan-submitted content. I understand that you don't give a sh*t about a concert video on Youtube, and that it does nothing for you - but there are people who do not share your sentiments, and feel it is an excellent way to relive a phenomenal experience when done right. I think it's pretty clear that shooting videos at concerts is a trend which we'll see more and more of soon, and if this is encroaching on people's abilities to enjoy themselves, that's a real problem. That said, rather than getting pissed that people shoot videos, I'm excited to see the future in discrete video-taking options, which I have no doubt will be integrated into many devices in time.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
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josevolution Posts: 28,489
September 2010
I stand on the side of no videos yeah put the phones down .....
jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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dcfaithful Posts: 13,076
September 2010
benjs wrote:
I'm working on a DVD project for a band we all know and love, and would not be able to do it without fan-submitted content. I understand that you don't give a sh*t about a concert video on Youtube, and that it does nothing for you - but there are people who do not share your sentiments, and feel it is an excellent way to relive a phenomenal experience when done right.
That's cool, I mean it's all your personal feeling I guess.
I'm not against recording a show on video, I enjoy a great concert DVD, and own quite a few. But like you said, it's a great experience...when done right. I don't know if a bad quality cell phone video does justice, and that seems to me the majority of what's going on. But it's only my opinion, and at the end of the night, it doesn't ruin my concert experience. sh*t, I don't have to put forth any effort except watchin' the show.
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2Options
jamburger Posts: 1,775
September 2010
benjs wrote:
dcfaithful wrote:
Thank God for Chris Robinson.
I agree with him. I don't give a sh*t about a concert video on YouTube really, it does nothing for me. There is now way to recreate seeing an incredible show live, and personally...I like remembering a concert either by a quality bootleg...or just simply going back there mentally. If it was that incredible of a show, you should have no problem doing it.
I'm working on a DVD project for a band we all know and love, and would not be able to do it without fan-submitted content. I understand that you don't give a sh*t about a concert video on Youtube, and that it does nothing for you - but there are people who do not share your sentiments, and feel it is an excellent way to relive a phenomenal experience when done right. I think it's pretty clear that shooting videos at concerts is a trend which we'll see more and more of soon, and if this is encroaching on people's abilities to enjoy themselves, that's a real problem. That said, rather than getting pissed that people shoot videos, I'm excited to see the future in discrete video-taking options, which I have no doubt will be integrated into many devices in time.
No offense to your project, but there were some pretty sweet fan made DVD's prior to the age of everyone submitting 4 minute clips from their camera phones to be compiled into a way to relive said experience. It was always covert and never out in the open the way it's done now. In fact, other than once being asked to not bump into this guy because he was stealth filming, I have never been able to spot a camera in the crowd, yet I've relived about 100 experiences on DVD in my home from this and other bands.
Take a snapshot if you like... film a minute or two... but once you're blocking my line of sight because YOU feel the experience needs to be relived over and over again, I will say something to you.
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